does anyone know why we never get a truly severe cold snowy spell these days like feb 1991 or jan 1987 ?

is it global warming possibly 

are sst's warmer now 

that is 10 days of cumulative snow build up and severe cold 

not current wintery setups which are rubbish in my area - hit and miss snow and sleet showers and toppler northerlies

 

thanks

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You not remember 2010? 

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Because we are a small island surrounded by warm water, and we are not in a continental climate but a maritime climate.

Cold and snowy spells are very much the exception to the rule.

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Can we also count 2013 in that? The only thing that prevented it from rivaling 2010 was that it started in March, but even so it still produced the deepest snow I have ever seen given a small amount of elevation (in excess of 5 feet, not just the drifts). 

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I have to admit that in the last ten years, it does appear to me that any polar maritime-type northerly airflow that does occur over the UK seem to have lost their punch, where there is less of that "when the north wind doth blows, the snow will blow" thing about them - and I'm sure that changes down the line is causing all that.
  Granted, we still get to have significant snow if other type of synoptic set ups are right for it (northern blocking causing our wind to take on a continental nature) but when I was younger, I used to get excited whenever I saw the TV isobar charts showing a cold front moving southwards along the UK in a "potent" northerly airflow, but nowadays they are treated with a snort of derision on my part.

But it might be down to my perception rather than facts.

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The Midlands and south have never (almost never) got snow in a straight northerly. It just doesn't work like that.

What you're basically saying is "Why don't rare and noteworthy events happen every winter"? And I think you know the answer to that. If cold spells were frequent in the UK, then we would have the same attitude to them that, say, northern Americans do - they're a pain in the backside and we'd quickly learn to hate snow.

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Would you want another 62/63 ...... 

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Quantum?

Never!

 

And, as others have said, the late Nov - Dec 2010 event was as severe as any in my lifetime.

A month of frigid weather, with almost every part of the UK getting good snow cover at some point or other. Some (even lowland) places in the NE/E had >12" of snow that lay on the ground for several weeks.

It was the coldest December for 100 years, with more minus-double-digit minimums than I can recall in a cold spell (even at some coastal areas), and multiple ice days.

And, most importantly of all, it happened in the lead-up to - and over - Xmas.

 

Jan 87 was nothing great IMBY. A very cold fortnight, but no snow. I know for some areas it was Nirvana, but this wasn't anywhere near as universal as Dec 2010, nor as long-lasting.

 

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Even if we did, I bet some would still be despairing at the potential breakdown at t+300, and that they've only got 3 inches when Sheffield's had 43....

A while back I was on a website that showed weather reports from the famously cold and snowy winter of 1947 (snowier than 1962/63), and it was noticable that it the less favourable southern coastal locations had less snow cover than I'd have expected.... the Isle of Portland for instance only had a couple of days or so of light cover....  If we had a repeat today, we'd still need a "winter moaning thread!"

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Now you mention it.... my dad tells me that the 62/3 winter was extremely cold but not very snowy in much of the NW of England. Snowed Boxing Day, put a couple inches down, then was dry from there in in.

Sounds like a longer, slightly more snowy and colder version of Jan 87 to me   

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I've lived in the same house for 37 years (barring a few years away at uni and living in London for a while), having bought it off my parents when they retired.

And I have to say that the Jan 2010 snow was the best I can remember there. Dec 2010 didn't deliver a massive amount of snow, but there were frequent top-ups. I think the max depth was only about 12cm or so, from memory - less than half what Jan 2010 gave).

 

Looking at old photos, the only one that rivalled it for snow would have been 1981/1982, and I was too young then to really remember much about it. My parents tell me it reached -18C back then, though, which is colder than anything I've recorded.

 

 

Short answer: cold spells always look better in hindsight than they appear at the time.

 

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Winter 2009/2010 was the coldest UK winter since 78/79 (and 1963 in Scotland) December 2010 was the coldest since 1890 (and just 0.2c off being the coldest since records began in 1659) while March 2013 was the coldest since 1883 in central England.

We've not done too badly for severe cold in recent years, to be honest.

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This is what I call severe:

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A bit of IMBYism on my part here (for which I am not ashamed)...but a temp of -17c one morning in Dec 2010 here in Northallerton (and 2 feet of snow lying for days on low ground near here also in the same month) is pretty severe.  In fact, the whole of December 2010 was pretty nippy, not just here but in practically every region of the UK.

So yes, we can, and will, still get severe winter conditions...given the right synoptics.  In fact, warmer sea temps. = potential for heavier snow.

David

Northallerton 

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For me jan 1987 gets the gold medal of severe spells along with Feb 1991

As for dec 2010 - ice days and severe frosts and a vivid memory of massive icicles
Snow-wise good - but I don't think it was as good as the other two spells

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yes absolutely - about time we saw something like that

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The problem this year has IMO been the lack of deep cold pooling in our region. In answer to the question we do still get severe spells of cold occasionally and since 2009 there have been several.

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But we were an island and surround by water back in 91 and 87 etc.

 

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etc. including Dec 2010 and March 2013...

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If you mean specifically classic easterlies then yes they have been scarce for the last 20 years or so. The Northerly inspired spells of 2010 and March 2013 were without doubt up there with the best, but for here at least a screaming easterly always delivers, and they are as rare as anything at the moment.

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I think a lot of our impressions of how the weather 'should be' are formulated, for a lot people on how the weather seemed at a specific point in our lives - specifically that period between about 10 and 17 years old....the time of life when you've nothing better to do than stare out the window and watch weather forecasts. For example - that period in my own life was characterised by a series of very mild winters, followed by a series of cold / very cold winters. Therefore I grew up with the impression of very variable winters but with extremes of mildness and coldness.
That said, I do recall north-westerly types being more frequent and potent in the past - and it could be that warmer seas in the north Atlantic are modifying cold airmasses more than say 30-40 years ago hence the perception of a reduction in coldness / severirty in UK winters.
Of course as has been already pointed out - the absence of proper winter easterlies over the much of the last 20 years or so is notable now - but one day the synoptics will happen and once again we'll see sub 510 thickness approach from the east. Who knows - it could only be 12 months away !

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We also got more snow in Jan 2010 (although only 2cm or so in it) and the Jan 10 snow stayed on the ground longer than in Dec 10 (lasted over 3 weeks; the big piles of snow on car parks even longer).

But Dec 10 was just epic in terms of depth and longevity of cold.

 

 

 

I turned 10 that winter so have some vivid memories. I'd agree that it rivalled the Dec 10 spell. In some ways (here at least) the Dec 10 mirrored the Dec 81 spell, like MBY only joining the snow party later than most places, similar snow depths, and the post-Xmas thaw (although the remainder of winter in 82 saw another cold & snowy spell)

 

 

Deffo agree with this! I think because our good cold spells are rare and very precarious in nature, we're generally too nervous that 1) it'll go tits-up before it really gets going; then 2) will break down all too soon.

In Dec 10, we had two or three model-forecasted snow events for MBY that didn't happen and I was beginning to resign myself to missing out on snow completely (I'd experienced a great fall in York at the end of Nov, and we'd had freezing fog giving us a beautiful fall of 'diamond dust', but no snow for MBY). Looking for - and not receiving - snow kinda took the edge off at the time.

But, as you say, when you look back, safe in the knowledge that you did eventually get a great fall of snow, you can appreciate just how good it was.

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A definite factor, of course, but there wasn't much cold pooling in our region in Nov 2010. We got the cold from the block being in the sweet spot, and feeding us a proper Arctic flow. If you tap into that at any point in winter, you'll get cold.

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2010, 2009, 2013, all were pretty severe.  2013 brought widespread blizzards.

 

 

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