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sizzle
02 February 2015 13:57:30

hope members dont mind,  here is a post from tamara on NW for those who don't go there or not have read this yet,


 




The pattern as has evolved over recent days is a very good illustration of where, on a northern hemispheric level, things have actually accorded quite well with expectations (i.e Atlantic amplification and Euro trough) Then, also in follow up, the broad-scale suggestion of that ridge strengthening towards a blocked pattern with a further retrogression signal starting to come into view. It is the upcoming period and that longer range amplification signal that provides the next headache


 


I think it is on this basis that the use of longer range tools such as the AAM/GWO circulation and stratospheric modelling to try to predict opportunities for colder spells (and any other type of weather pattern obviously) has its true worth and value. The worth in learning about these tools is invaluable imo because, as I have discovered especially this winter, it is possible to spot some distance out when the next opportunities for a cold pattern might arise (as well of course what the problems might be in achieving those opportunities, or trying to decide whether any desired colder pattern might arise at all)


 


We have seen this winter just how enigmatic the signals have been -  we have only had at our disposal an atmospheric circulatory signal that has provided periodic Pacific > Atlantic pattern retrogressions and attendant amplification signals heading from upstream> downstream. It has not been driven by an anticipated Siberian -AO signal for northern blocking to evolve


 


The regularity of the cyclical nature of the atmospheric pattern has in truth made anticipating the way ahead relatively easy- even though it has not been the best of news. The GWO orbits this winter have featured  -AAM phasing between 1,2,3 and 3,2,1 in the first half of the winter - but have progressed to a higher amplitude phasing  (Phases 4/5 to 8/1) in the second half on the winter so far that have increased the same amplification signal of the first half of the winter and has also enabled the stratospheric profile to change through increased torques and MT's which has shaken up vertical wave activity and assisted us with a displaced vortex


 


However, this is a perfect example of where the atmospheric circulatory pattern has progressed to achieving macro scale improvements to a frustrating and enigmatic winter pattern,  but, these are still only improvements within the limitations that the dominant background pattern allows - and these better opportunities still cannot ever guarantee the precise 'will it snow' close  details that so many of us crave on this forum.  


 


The UK, is a micro dot, in that broad-scale hemispheric context, and as we know especially when we are restricted by a pattern that is not predisposed to HLB in the heart of the winter, then it is going to be even harder to come close to fulfilling the potential wintry parameters that such a broad-scale pattern offers.


 


This illustrates exactly why my own posting leaves the closer examination of possibilities to others to comment on - and we all hope very much that these are in our favour.


 


So, as to the way ahead?


 


That GWO orbit continues with repeated rinse and recycle signal. The MJO phase cycle teleconnects to underpin the anticyclonic Feb spell - and the constant retrogression signal remains (we see the ECM picking up on this).


 


The uncertainty for me is what is likely to happen to the vortex, in terms of movement and re-organisation. We are losing the displaced signal, but we have further wave activity to consider and the GWO orbit tells us this. Phase 4/5 (which is the here and now) signals a second imminent +EAMT and this should assist to try and re-shuffle vortex energy back towards our side of the pole after the upcoming transfer across the pole to Greenland.


 


An example here of timing being the essence. Timing of an amplification signal with vortex energy transport across the pole is very hard to gauge - and it is here that the fate of the latitude of our current amplified Atlantic ridge has rested. Wave activity over Asia courtesy of EAMT is set to be followed by further vertical wave activity the other side of the pole as the GWO orbits through phases 8/1 and into the next Pacific retrogression signal... that the ECM is picking up on already.


 


So, in summary, we get some assistance (repeat circuit of late Jan) from another +EAMT for vortex movement to our side of the pole (GWO 4/5) and then we get a subsequent -MT for upstream Atlantic amplification (Phases 8/1/2). Sounds familiar.


 


http://www.atmos.alb...wo/gfsgwo_1.png


 


Mention has been given before of eventual translation of this amplification pattern to an HLB scenario. This, with an underlying weak El Nino to hand (which traditionally favours the second half of winter for cold spells) has been perfectly plausible based on some reasonable expectation that the inner core of this (swear filter) vortex would burn. However, thus far it has managed as a relatively weak and unstable feature to escape such a torching.


 


The changing wave lengths will make a difference there is no doubt - the question is will this provide the optimum synoptics in the Spring, if they arrive at all, rather than the last part of February? Its still too early to answer that question, and there is time yet for sure - but for now eyes anyway on this next retrogression signal. There is another plunge of cold air on its way to supplement what exists to our north and east.


 


How much within the limitations of this cyclical quasi upstream>downstream amplification recycling can we squeeze out, without Europe to our east and south being the total beneficiaries once more?



 
bluejosh
02 February 2015 14:08:18


thanks gav and TBH today has been like a early spring like day sunny and a bit chilly, bye winter its been emotional, shame it could not deliver, here in Essex,


Originally Posted by: sizzle 


 


You might want to check the date Sizzle, unless that is you only get 2 months of winter in Essex. Across the border in Herts it's 1C and feels bitterly cold.


 


If you cast your mind back 4 weeks the models were showing endless zonality. As it turned out Jan was, for a lot of people including myself, a fairly decent winter month for those who like cold weather. There is nothing to say we couldn't be looking at another cold spell in 10 days time, when, surprise surprise,  it would only be the 12th Feb :)


 


 

Scandy 1050 MB
02 February 2015 14:17:22


hope members dont mind,  here is a post from tamara on NW for those who don't go there or not have read this yet,


 




The pattern as has evolved over recent days is a very good illustration of where, on a northern hemispheric level, things have actually accorded quite well with expectations (i.e Atlantic amplification and Euro trough) Then, also in follow up, the broad-scale suggestion of that ridge strengthening towards a blocked pattern with a further retrogression signal starting to come into view. It is the upcoming period and that longer range amplification signal that provides the next headache


 


I think it is on this basis that the use of longer range tools such as the AAM/GWO circulation and stratospheric modelling to try to predict opportunities for colder spells (and any other type of weather pattern obviously) has its true worth and value. The worth in learning about these tools is invaluable imo because, as I have discovered especially this winter, it is possible to spot some distance out when the next opportunities for a cold pattern might arise (as well of course what the problems might be in achieving those opportunities, or trying to decide whether any desired colder pattern might arise at all)


 


We have seen this winter just how enigmatic the signals have been -  we have only had at our disposal an atmospheric circulatory signal that has provided periodic Pacific > Atlantic pattern retrogressions and attendant amplification signals heading from upstream> downstream. It has not been driven by an anticipated Siberian -AO signal for northern blocking to evolve


 


The regularity of the cyclical nature of the atmospheric pattern has in truth made anticipating the way ahead relatively easy- even though it has not been the best of news. The GWO orbits this winter have featured  -AAM phasing between 1,2,3 and 3,2,1 in the first half of the winter - but have progressed to a higher amplitude phasing  (Phases 4/5 to 8/1) in the second half on the winter so far that have increased the same amplification signal of the first half of the winter and has also enabled the stratospheric profile to change through increased torques and MT's which has shaken up vertical wave activity and assisted us with a displaced vortex


 


However, this is a perfect example of where the atmospheric circulatory pattern has progressed to achieving macro scale improvements to a frustrating and enigmatic winter pattern,  but, these are still only improvements within the limitations that the dominant background pattern allows - and these better opportunities still cannot ever guarantee the precise 'will it snow' close  details that so many of us crave on this forum.  


 


The UK, is a micro dot, in that broad-scale hemispheric context, and as we know especially when we are restricted by a pattern that is not predisposed to HLB in the heart of the winter, then it is going to be even harder to come close to fulfilling the potential wintry parameters that such a broad-scale pattern offers.


 


This illustrates exactly why my own posting leaves the closer examination of possibilities to others to comment on - and we all hope very much that these are in our favour.


 


So, as to the way ahead?


 


That GWO orbit continues with repeated rinse and recycle signal. The MJO phase cycle teleconnects to underpin the anticyclonic Feb spell - and the constant retrogression signal remains (we see the ECM picking up on this).


 


The uncertainty for me is what is likely to happen to the vortex, in terms of movement and re-organisation. We are losing the displaced signal, but we have further wave activity to consider and the GWO orbit tells us this. Phase 4/5 (which is the here and now) signals a second imminent +EAMT and this should assist to try and re-shuffle vortex energy back towards our side of the pole after the upcoming transfer across the pole to Greenland.


 


An example here of timing being the essence. Timing of an amplification signal with vortex energy transport across the pole is very hard to gauge - and it is here that the fate of the latitude of our current amplified Atlantic ridge has rested. Wave activity over Asia courtesy of EAMT is set to be followed by further vertical wave activity the other side of the pole as the GWO orbits through phases 8/1 and into the next Pacific retrogression signal... that the ECM is picking up on already.


 


So, in summary, we get some assistance (repeat circuit of late Jan) from another +EAMT for vortex movement to our side of the pole (GWO 4/5) and then we get a subsequent -MT for upstream Atlantic amplification (Phases 8/1/2). Sounds familiar.


 


http://www.atmos.alb...wo/gfsgwo_1.png


 


Mention has been given before of eventual translation of this amplification pattern to an HLB scenario. This, with an underlying weak El Nino to hand (which traditionally favours the second half of winter for cold spells) has been perfectly plausible based on some reasonable expectation that the inner core of this (swear filter) vortex would burn. However, thus far it has managed as a relatively weak and unstable feature to escape such a torching.


 


The changing wave lengths will make a difference there is no doubt - the question is will this provide the optimum synoptics in the Spring, if they arrive at all, rather than the last part of February? Its still too early to answer that question, and there is time yet for sure - but for now eyes anyway on this next retrogression signal. There is another plunge of cold air on its way to supplement what exists to our north and east.


 


How much within the limitations of this cyclical quasi upstream>downstream amplification recycling can we squeeze out, without Europe to our east and south being the total beneficiaries once more?



 

Originally Posted by: sizzle 


A lot of this over my head (always good when Stormchaser has the time to translate) but the general idea seems to be  that the ECM may be picking up on something this morning in the bigger scheme of things, so all eyes on tonight's runs to see if that signal is carried further retrogression wise. Then again the ECM could join the GFS in placing HP over the UK only to sink slowly southwards - we'll know in a few hours.


In the immediate term could be some more slushy lying snow in the early mornings for certain parts of the country in the next couple of days. Annoying this cold spell as there has been reasonable precipitation for a northerly in places that don't normally have anything in a northerly spell , just the air has been that bit too warm for most of lowland England to benefit unfortunately. 


 

sizzle
02 February 2015 14:47:15

https://twitter.com/MattHugo81  intresting one from matt hugo on twitter

Jonesy
02 February 2015 14:56:41


thanks gav and TBH today has been like a early spring like day sunny and a bit chilly, bye winter its been emotional, shame it could not deliver, here in Essex,


Originally Posted by: sizzle 


You planning on hibernating for the rest of the week?


... if so may not be worth you posting anything from elsewhere regarding cold/snowy weather 


The sun gives a false sense of warmth, 2.5*c with a feels like temperature of -1*c is not Spring like imo unless your a penguin.


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
hobensotwo
02 February 2015 15:43:41


 


 


I was just about to post how good this forum was getting - and then I saw this lot this afternoon!


Originally Posted by: Islander 


What do you reckon the chances are for a light dusting down here tonight?


Looks like there will be some snow showers coming through the channel this evening with lows close to 0C

Gusty
02 February 2015 15:49:31

The GFS 12z continues to upgrade tomorrow morning..turning into quite an 'event' for some parts of the SE.


Modele GFS - Carte prévisions


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
02 February 2015 15:53:03

I won't tolerate sniping in here...if you have a problem keep it out of this thread and discuss it somewhere else


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:01:45

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfs-1-90.png?12


Another micro upgrade for later in the week


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:03:36

troughing near greenland weaker. I dont know if it will have any longer term effects


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfsnh-0-96.png?12


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:10:32

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfs-0-120.png?12


Could get interesting. Better ridging nw


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:12:01

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2015020212/UW96-21.GIF?02-17


UKMO still has a keen east wind for the south on Friday


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:14:23

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfsnh-1-132.png?12


Cold pool closer at this stage.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
nsrobins
02 February 2015 16:16:34


 


What do you reckon the chances are for a light dusting down here tonight?


Looks like there will be some snow showers coming through the channel this evening with lows close to 0C


Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


I was just thinking the CIs may latch on to something Weds night into Fri am as you are geographically nearer the cold source in an ENE feed than even most of the SE. Get a train setting up - and you won't really pin that down until 12 - 24hrs out - an dyou could do well for a day or so.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:16:42

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2015020212/UN120-21.GIF?02-17


UKMO 120


High is moving west. Can we get the trough to drop into Scandi?


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:19:02

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfs-1-144.png?12


A few more baby steps and we may  get back in the freezer. Good trends so far


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:21:32

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfs-1-156.png?12


Oh so close!


If we can get a bit more correction north, then we could be back in business


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Islander
02 February 2015 16:26:02


 


What do you reckon the chances are for a light dusting down here tonight?


Looks like there will be some snow showers coming through the channel this evening with lows close to 0C


Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


 


I think we should get a dusting - radar showing showers building up now. Hopefully tomorrow we should get a cm or 2 as temp will be at it's lowest for a while, especially the higher parishes - fingers crossed!!


Guernsey
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:28:10

http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2015020212/18-574.GIF?02-12


As mentioned, big upgrade for the SE for tonight. Perhaps a Thames streamer?


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:30:38

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015020212/gfs-1-180.png?12


Big freeze up for Italy and Balkans. Hope this cold pool is nearer us on the 18z.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:33:14

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2015020212/UN144-21.GIF?02-17


Very different shaped high on UKMO.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
02 February 2015 16:34:46


http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2015020212/UN144-21.GIF?02-17


Very different shaped high on UKMO.


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Its unlikely but if that cold shot was over the UK instead of scandi, we are looking at minimun -16/-17C uppers (probably Shetland). I am not exaggerating.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Snowedin3
02 February 2015 16:36:19
Reckon there will be some pretty cold ensemble members today
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
The Beast from the East
02 February 2015 16:38:57

I think Steve Murr was about to throw in the towel. Perhaps he might hold off a bit longer


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
02 February 2015 16:40:23

Reckon there will be some pretty cold ensemble members today

Originally Posted by: Snowedin3 


I recon it will be similar to the 6Z, most diverging and somewhere between 5 and -5 and the odd exceptionally cold <-12C run courtesy of being on the edge of that insanely cold scandi airmass. .


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.

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