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Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
25 June 2015 18:46:14

Aside from my obvious greatest hit the 'high pressure watch' I suspect this could be one of the more active and exciting threads I have made in the MO board. 


Models broadly want two shots of warm air from the south east, one beginning next tuesday and the other towards the end of the week. Temperatures getting above the 30C mark are pretty much guaranteed unless there is a major pattern change (very unlikely); I am skeptical of the near record breaking temps the GFS in particular is showing but it cannot be ruled out.


We shouldn't underestimate the storm risk either; I'm seeing a rather uncommon number of double digit LIs which is a very rough cutoff for possible tornado activity. However, I think instead of seeing -12, the models may downgrade to closer to -6 when the time comes.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
picturesareme
25 June 2015 19:11:49
I doubt we'll see anything higher then 31-32C, and even then this is likely to be in the usual favoured spots. Thankfully I live in one of those spots should the wind back northeast 😄.

I think north of Leeds/ Manchester temperatures will do well if they make it 26C.

I just get this feeling that it will end up being watered down, and shifted more east closer to the time.
LeedsLad123
25 June 2015 19:30:07

I doubt we'll see anything higher then 31-32C, and even then this is likely to be in the usual favoured spots. Thankfully I live in one of those spots should the wind back northeast 😄.

I think north of Leeds/ Manchester temperatures will do well if they make it 26C.

I just get this feeling that it will end up being watered down, and shifted more east closer to the time.

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Well your post is clearly not based on anything the models are showing. I would expect at least one day of 30-31C here given what is currently shown on the output.


Could be watered down or shunted further east of course - and there is always that nagging feeling in the back of my head that something will go wrong.


But, it's worth keeping in mind that 30C in Leeds isn't uncommon - it occurs more years than not, and was pretty much an annual occurrence between 1990 and 2007 (I use 1990 as  the start because data for Leeds only goes back to the late 1980s). So in reality, what is currently shown for us isn't really exceptional at all, but is pretty much what we got most summers before 2007.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
springsunshine
25 June 2015 19:33:15

Another BIG disappointment coming up,me thinks.

picturesareme
25 June 2015 19:37:24


 


Well your post is clearly not based on anything the models are showing. I would expect at least one day of 30-31C here given what is currently shown on the output.


Could be watered down or shunted further east of course - and there is always that nagging feeling in the back of my head that something will go wrong.


But, it's worth keeping in mind that 30C in Leeds isn't uncommon - it occurs more years than not, and was pretty much an annual occurrence between 1990 and 2007 (I use 1990 as  the start because data for Leeds only goes back to the late 1980s). So in reality, what is currently shown for us isn't really exceptional at all, but is pretty much what we got most summers before 2007.


Originally Posted by: LeedsLad123 


Well not all of the model esemble runs are showing nationwide 30C heat, it's just a lot of people are choosing to ignore it. The fact is at this range with our climate it would be silly not to expect some kind of reasonable downgrades in the comming few days, especially those further north, and west.   

Whether Idle
25 June 2015 20:37:30


Another BIG disappointment coming up,me thinks.


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


Perhaps so.  All people are doing is discussing the models.  Personally, anything over 25C IMBY would be a good achievement.  I usually get a few days (say 6) over 25 a year and maybe 1 over 28.  If the plume is still on target by the end of the weekend then we can be sure for some real heat, but there is only one thing  more difficult to achieve in Britain than extreme summer heat, and that is extreme winter cold.


Time will tell.  But in the meantime people should enjoy the charts for the fun and fantasy they are.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Rob K
25 June 2015 21:03:53
Given that the pre-2003 record of 37.1C was achieved with a three-day wonder with maximum 850s of 18C, I think that IF we get the synoptics currently shown then 35C ought to be easy. I mean, the latest 12Z GFS run has 850s of 23C over Kent briefly, which would be a record AFAIK.

But equally there are members of the GFS ensembles showing 850s of 5C, not 23C!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
bruced
25 June 2015 21:17:47

I'll be on UK heat watch from Norway, where it will be much cooler and probably wetter.  In fact, it will be positively cold when we arrive in Tromso and areas further N.  Typical that I am going to miss this heat - it's been a long time coming.


David


Northallerton


David
Sevendust
25 June 2015 21:33:45

The heat is really arriving as a result of low pressure forcing it north as opposed to an established High Pressure set up where heat can build under stable synoptics. The plume will be under attack immediately from the west. The only unknown is how quickly the fresher air will displace the theta-e plume

picturesareme
25 June 2015 22:03:28


I'll be on UK heat watch from Norway, where it will be much cooler and probably wetter.  In fact, it will be positively cold when we arrive in Tromso and areas further N.  Typical that I am going to miss this heat - it's been a long time coming.


David


Northallerton


Originally Posted by: bruced 


 


Tromso can get pretty warm during the summer. Here is a graph of recorded temperatures last July...


 


http://weather.cs.uit.no/cgi-bin/wtstat?time=201406110000&type=monthcenter&zoom.x=699&zoom.y=60


 


For that week it topped 29.5C 

nsrobins
25 June 2015 22:49:23


I'm seeing a rather uncommon number of double digit LIs which is a very rough cutoff for possible tornado activity.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


This is actually not necessarily the case. The LI is one of numerous parameters that feed into the equation when forecasting tornado risk, and certainly not the major player. Tornados in the UK can easily occur in quite 'stable' conditions in terms of CAPE and convective potential because other parameters which arguably have more influence in generating tornados here are more prevalent, for example speed and directional shear. A high LI could well generate numerous storms locally, but they won't necessarily be a tornado risk, especially the sort of storms and convective complexes that occur in summer plume set-ups.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
25 June 2015 23:47:48


 


This is actually not necessarily the case. The LI is one of numerous parameters that feed into the equation when forecasting tornado risk, and certainly not the major player. Tornados in the UK can easily occur in quite 'stable' conditions in terms of CAPE and convective potential because other parameters which arguably have more influence in generating tornados here are more prevalent, for example speed and directional shear. A high LI could well generate numerous storms locally, but they won't necessarily be a tornado risk, especially the sort of storms and convective complexes that occur in summer plume set-ups.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


But speed and directional sheer are useless if there are no storms or only weak convective activity. In fact sheer plays a rather large role in lake effect snowfalls, but 850s are still often the first port of call. In reality I wouldn't use LIs in short term tornado forecasting, but at this sort of range I think its perfectly justified to do this given that we are looking at the sort of environment that might be favourable. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Arcus
26 June 2015 07:04:47


 


This is actually not necessarily the case. The LI is one of numerous parameters that feed into the equation when forecasting tornado risk, and certainly not the major player. Tornados in the UK can easily occur in quite 'stable' conditions in terms of CAPE and convective potential because other parameters which arguably have more influence in generating tornados here are more prevalent, for example speed and directional shear. A high LI could well generate numerous storms locally, but they won't necessarily be a tornado risk, especially the sort of storms and convective complexes that occur in summer plume set-ups.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Indeed Neil. Folks need to look beyond the seductive colours on CAPE/LI maps and understand that moisture and instability mean nought unless there is a sufficient forcing mechanism to initiate convection.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
26 June 2015 08:15:42


 


Indeed Neil. Folks need to look beyond the seductive colours on CAPE/LI maps and understand that moisture and instability mean nought unless there is a sufficient forcing mechanism to initiate convection.


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


But this is like using Skew T diagrams to forecast snow at 144hr. What is the point of using advanced techniques if the benefits to be gained are lost in the uncertainty of a medium term forecast?


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
26 June 2015 10:28:13
Date records in danger:

JULY
2 35.7 96.3 Cheltenham (Glos) 1976; 35.6/96.1 Trowbridge (Wilts) 1976
3 35.9 96.6 Cheltenham (Glos)1976
4 34.1 93.4 North Heath (W Sussex) and Cheltenham (Glos)1976

And of course the overall July record:

19 36.5 97.7 Wisley (Surrey) 2006
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
26 June 2015 13:31:56

Not well forecast but it's the hottest day of the year today 27c in Gravesend. 850s about 12c today for that area.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
26 June 2015 13:33:35

Date records in danger:

JULY
2 35.7 96.3 Cheltenham (Glos) 1976; 35.6/96.1 Trowbridge (Wilts) 1976
3 35.9 96.6 Cheltenham (Glos)1976
4 34.1 93.4 North Heath (W Sussex) and Cheltenham (Glos)1976

And of course the overall July record:

19 36.5 97.7 Wisley (Surrey) 2006

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Current max temps on the high res GFS maps:


29 June: 26C


30 June: 29C


1 July: 31C


2 July: 33C


3 July: 28C


4 July: 31C


5 July: 25C


Making it, if that came to pass, a notable hot spell probably edging 34c but nothing near record breaking. The date record that looks most vulnerable is the 4th. But yesterday evening we were looking at charts showing 37C which certainly would be record breaking.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Hungry Tiger
26 June 2015 13:38:31


 


Current max temps on the high res GFS maps:


29 June: 26C


30 June: 29C


1 July: 31C


2 July: 33C


3 July: 28C


4 July: 31C


5 July: 25C


Making it, if that came to pass, a notable hot spell probably edging 34c but nothing near record breaking. The date record that looks most vulnerable is the 4th. But yesterday evening we were looking at charts showing 37C which certainly would be record breaking.


Originally Posted by: TimS 


Lets keep tabs on this.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Rob K
26 June 2015 13:49:58
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rmgfs094.gif 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
26 June 2015 14:00:53

Hellen Wlletts just now on the Beeb temps could peak mid 30s next week!


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
SEMerc
26 June 2015 14:12:08


Hellen Wlletts just now on the Beeb temps could peak mid 30s next week!


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Carol Kirkwood certainly peaks in the mid-30's

nsrobins
26 June 2015 14:21:27


 


Carol Kirkwood certainly peaks in the mid-30's


Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


This is Heat Watch not Cougar Watch


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Sussex snow magnet
26 June 2015 14:48:56
Is there a list of records by temp/date?ie say top 20 temps recorded but not at different locations on the same date.
Rob K
26 June 2015 14:58:02

Is there a list of records by temp/date?ie say top 20 temps recorded but not at different locations on the same date.

Originally Posted by: Sussex snow magnet 


 


There's a list of hottest temps for each day of the year here, if you want to do some sorting... 


 


http://torro.org.uk/site/hightempsyear.php


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
26 June 2015 15:02:43

27.8c today in Gravesend 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.

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