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Russwirral
22 October 2015 08:30:04
interesting how the GFS is showing LPs seeming to deepen way out to our west and then flatten out as they approach our shores? Thats a definite change to recent years.

Probably caused by the Cold pool in the north atlantic.
David M Porter
22 October 2015 08:38:12


 


Spot on , stop us posting charts like this that are just outside the reliable timeframe


 


V


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Imagine the ramping that would almost certainly be going on in here in early January if we were to get charts like that only a few days ahead!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
David M Porter
22 October 2015 09:05:52

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif


Tasty!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Maunder Minimum
22 October 2015 09:17:50

interesting how the GFS is showing LPs seeming to deepen way out to our west and then flatten out as they approach our shores? Thats a definite change to recent years.

Probably caused by the Cold pool in the north atlantic.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Well, one of the factors in cyclogenesis is the temperature differential between an air mass and the waters it is travelling across. In a typical UK winter, frigid air spilling off the eastern seaboard and Nova Scotia causes intense cyclogenesis when it meets the warm waters of the north Atlantic - so if the waters are cooler than usual, that effect should be less pronounced I would have thought.


New world order coming.
Sevendust
22 October 2015 09:40:37


Well, one of the factors in cyclogenesis is the temperature differential between an air mass and the waters it is travelling across. In a typical UK winter, frigid air spilling off the eastern seaboard and Nova Scotia causes intense cyclogenesis when it meets the warm waters of the north Atlantic - so if the waters are cooler than usual, that effect should be less pronounced I would have thought.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Agreed

Sevendust
22 October 2015 09:43:44


Is there any evidence to suggest that weather patterns in early November are a good indicator for general trends during the following winter?


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


No


Anyway, how's OPI this year?

Chunky Pea
22 October 2015 09:53:55


 


Well, one of the factors in cyclogenesis is the temperature differential between an air mass and the waters it is travelling across. In a typical UK winter, frigid air spilling off the eastern seaboard and Nova Scotia causes intense cyclogenesis when it meets the warm waters of the north Atlantic - so if the waters are cooler than usual, that effect should be less pronounced I would have thought.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Possibly to an extent, but on the other had, wouldn't TM air mass react more vigorously when encountering colder N.Atlantic temps?


 


SST anoms in Feb 90, a month that saw a high frequency of Atlantic storms on this side of the pond.


 



 


 


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Charmhills
22 October 2015 10:01:31


">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Tasty!



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif


Some proper cold building out east though.


Wet in the south and southwest.


 


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Hungry Tiger
22 October 2015 10:10:52


 


Tasty!


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif


Some proper cold building out east though.


Wet in the south and southwest.


 



Phew.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Stormchaser
22 October 2015 13:35:43
The cold pool has links with intense cyclogenesis in the n Atlantic as less-modified polar air collides with subtropical air and the temp gradients are greater than usual.

This year anomalously warm subtropical SSTs are further enhancing this.

Yet the cold pool is so large that despite a pos NAO sig for the first part of winter in many long range model outputs, temps are often signalled to be near to below average overall for the UK.

Interesting times in that respect.
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RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
22 October 2015 19:56:01

The cold pool has links with intense cyclogenesis in the n Atlantic as less-modified polar air collides with subtropical air and the temp gradients are greater than usual.

This year anomalously warm subtropical SSTs are further enhancing this.

Yet the cold pool is so large that despite a pos NAO sig for the first part of winter in many long range model outputs, temps are often signalled to be near to below average overall for the UK.

Interesting times in that respect.

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


So, possibly a good first-half seasonal prognosis for Scottish ski-resorts but not so good for snow fancying southerners.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Stormchaser
22 October 2015 22:02:01


 So, possibly a good first-half seasonal prognosis for Scottish ski-resorts but not so good for snow fancying southerners.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


Indeed, it could be irritatingly 'chilly yet not snowy' for the south, rather like it was at times last year.


Worryingly, a typical El Nino type North Atlantic pattern also favours a positive NAO during Dec and Jan. However... there are some unusual features to the Pacific SST distribution with this event - most of all an extra band of considerably warmer than average temps extending west from the U.S. Pacific coastline. This is different to 'The Blob' which was in fine form to the west of Canada earlier this year but has recently weakened considerably due in large part to atmospheric patterns driven by the El Nino event. It's a large and strong enough anomaly to potentially change the wavelength of the Rossby wave activity generated (trough-ridge combinations) in the region compared to that which was observed during the otherwise very comparable 82-83 and 97-98 'super' El Nino events.


Our current event has a very good chance of becoming the strongest ever observed, as unusually strong westerly wind bursts for so late in the year drive a final uptick in SST anomalies. This in itself takes us into uncharted waters, and we are sent further still by the fact that this event has displayed some of the 'hybrid' central/eastern Pacific El Nino characteristics seen in the 82-83, but not all of them, and with the central component considerably stronger (i.e. central Pacific anomalies rival eastern Pacific anomalies more closely in 2015 than seen in 82-83).


 


Coupled with the now-usual uncertainties associated with low Arctic sea ice and solar activity (the recent solar maximum has proved a bit feeble), long range forecasting is up against even greater odds than usual. Perhaps the greatest level of uncertainty relative to computing power that has ever been known!


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Gusty
23 October 2015 06:39:03

Next week is looking very mild with a southerly flow and daytime temperatures typically 14-17c for most the country. Always the chance of rain at times, especially in the west. The brightest weather in the east. Not bad for a week off with the kids for half term. 


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Maunder Minimum
23 October 2015 07:29:43


Next week is looking very mild with a southerly flow and daytime temperatures typically 14-17c for most the country. Always the chance of rain at times, especially in the west. The brightest weather in the east. Not bad for a week off with the kids for half term. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Not a bad time of year to put up with mild crud, providing the cold pool to our east builds and becomes entrenched.


I would rather have mild now and proper cold in December/Jan, than unseasonably cold weather now followed by mild crud for the rest of the winter as usually happens.


New world order coming.
nsrobins
23 October 2015 07:46:38


Next week is looking very mild with a southerly flow and daytime temperatures typically 14-17c for most the country. Always the chance of rain at times, especially in the west. The brightest weather in the east. Not bad for a week off with the kids for half term. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yes looking very usable for many areas with coolish nights and mellow days.


 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Nordic Snowman
23 October 2015 08:10:57


Next week is looking very mild with a southerly flow and daytime temperatures typically 14-17c for most the country. Always the chance of rain at times, especially in the west. The brightest weather in the east. Not bad for a week off with the kids for half term. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Indeed. Quite benign and typically boring. Already bored at looking the model output and we aren't even out of October. Zzzzzzz.


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Charmhills
23 October 2015 09:09:49


 


Indeed. Quite benign and typically boring. Already bored at looking the model output and we aren't even out of October. Zzzzzzz.


Originally Posted by: Nordic Snowman 


Indeed Mike.


ECM and Met, GFS looking pretty changeable even if it is quite mild with rain from time to time for most.


 


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Jonesy
23 October 2015 10:00:05


Next week is looking very mild with a southerly flow and daytime temperatures typically 14-17c for most the country. Always the chance of rain at times, especially in the west. The brightest weather in the east. Not bad for a week off with the kids for half term. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


I remember last Halloween was so Mild, I think we got to 19/20*c here!! ...hoping it helps with my CET prediction this month 


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
richardabdn
23 October 2015 17:39:36


 


Not a bad time of year to put up with mild crud, providing the cold pool to our east builds and becomes entrenched.


I would rather have mild now and proper cold in December/Jan, than unseasonably cold weather now followed by mild crud for the rest of the winter as usually happens.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Seems to me that in recent years we have had to put up with mild crud at this time of year then more of it in the winter. The only year out of the last four when we didn't get this in October was 2012 which was then followed by the only winter to have anything remotely resembling proper winter weather.

It really is an awful outlook for next week. Southerly winds are horrible at this time of year and I'm glad to be heading to the Canaries for a fortnight to miss what seems likely to be one of the dullest weeks of the year with mild cloudy nights and average cloudy days 

This has been another dud October that looks like exceeding the long term average rainfall here and has been dire for cold even by recent standards. Looks like the first not to drop below 2C here since 2011 and the first since 2009 with no single figure maxes. The lowest max in 2013 was 9.4C, in 2014 9.6C and this year 10.5C. Just incredible to have no sub-9C max for three successive October's. Doubt it's ever happened before.


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2023 - The Year that's Constantly Worse than a Bad November
2024 - 2023 without the Good Bits
Russwirral
23 October 2015 18:11:51
Russwirral
23 October 2015 18:14:30
it does appear - though winter doesnt hit on any of the charts - theres a consistent feeling that something is revving up to the north. the block to the north is killing the LPs and the continent is cooling down.

all we need is a decent shot of cold to descend and alot of pieces will quickly come together.

Very interesting Autumn charts i would say. 🙂
Maunder Minimum
23 October 2015 19:52:56

Is that a visable Fohn affect over the alps on this chart? Seems so.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

">http://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20151023/12/252/h850t850eu.png


That is a chart laden with potential down the line. It may look mild for the UK, but look at the cold building up to the east.


That is a very satisafactory chart for the time of year - far better than a zonal chart with mild westerlies all the way to the Urals.


Nothing wrong with that chart at all for the time of year.


New world order coming.
David M Porter
23 October 2015 20:21:27


 


Seems to me that in recent years we have had to put up with mild crud at this time of year then more of it in the winter. The only year out of the last four when we didn't get this in October was 2012 which was then followed by the only winter to have anything remotely resembling proper winter weather.

It really is an awful outlook for next week. Southerly winds are horrible at this time of year and I'm glad to be heading to the Canaries for a fortnight to miss what seems likely to be one of the dullest weeks of the year with mild cloudy nights and average cloudy days 

This has been another dud October that looks like exceeding the long term average rainfall here and has been dire for cold even by recent standards. Looks like the first not to drop below 2C here since 2011 and the first since 2009 with no single figure maxes. The lowest max in 2013 was 9.4C, in 2014 9.6C and this year 10.5C. Just incredible to have no sub-9C max for three successive October's. Doubt it's ever happened before.


Originally Posted by: richardabdn 


Surprised to hear you say that Aberdeen has probably had above rainfall this month. This month has been pretty dry where I live over the piece, and in spite of the mostly decent weather we've had, it hasn't been overly mild for much of the time. A better October overall thus far compared to some recent ones I've seen.


 


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022

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