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Stormchaser
27 October 2015 23:51:33

Any amplification we can get while this mid-latitude block is in place will be handy for driving warm air into the Arctic and at least worrying the developing polar vortex.


We'd need some negatively tilted trough action (area of low pressure orientated - ideally stretched out - NW to SE) in the middle of N. Atlantic to achieve significant impacts, though (warm air meeting the high terrain of Greenland = wave breaking into the stratosphere = unhappy vortex).


As it is, the best that seems to be on offer based on recent model guidance is enough amplification and jet meridionality to allow the mid-latitude block to become more of a mid to high latitude hybrid, which could help interfere with the polar vortex at the tropospheric level but I'm not seeing a lot of reason to expect much other than the usual well defined vortex developing through November as supported by the El Nino (and westerly QBO for those in the know) background.


Unless, that is, sea ice deficits in some parts of the Arctic prove sufficient to upset the balance - but the ice has grown exceptionally fast in recent times following the low September minimum, so the likelihood of that appears fairly slim now.


Signals for late Nov and Dec from the very much dominant El Nino background are indistinct for the UK, though a low pressure signal is noted near Iceland... standard fayre being the favoured option, which doesn't tell us much really.


 


So what we really have is a bit of a 'holding pattern' for the foreseeable with not much to help drive changes. Interesting, though, how the long-range model projections of a very stormy November are starting to look incredibly wide of the mark. More interesting still, the configuration of strong HP over Europe that's on the way for the end of this month and some way into the next is exactly the sort of thing that El Nino events tend to promote during the winter months... but with an emphasis on Jan-Feb, not Nov-Dec! It's as if we're a long way ahead of schedule, perhaps relating to the fact that the current El Nino began to manifest unusually early and then hit record levels for June. Only for months since then have the two other strongest events (82-83 and 97-98) been able to match 2015's intensity.


Interest hits a peak for the time being when factoring in the idea from some recent long range models of an earlier than usual cooling of the East Pacific while the Central Pacific remains as anomalously warm as ever. It's to do with the NAO but I'll leave it alone for now as we can't be at all sure whether this idea is going to be along the right lines or not.


I realise I've drifted into a bit of a winter discussion here, not setting the best of examples, but it's not as if the thread is flying 


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Gusty
28 October 2015 07:23:07

The largely fine, benign, settled and very mild conditions look set to continue for some time yet. We just need to keep an eye though on that fall in 850Hpa's as we approach Mid November. CFS have been picking up a mid month cold spell. It will be interesting to see how this pans out and if it verifies. 


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Brian Gaze
28 October 2015 07:28:11


The largely fine, benign, settled and very mild conditions look set to continue for some time yet. We just need to keep an eye though on that fall in 850Hpa's as we approach Mid November. CFS have been picking up a mid month cold spell. It will be interesting to see how this pans out and if it verifies. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Just talking about that on Twitter. It looks to mostly be the result of polar maritime air on some of the individual runs spreading southwards rather than anything of note. What is clear on some of the perturbations is a very strong PV to the northwest which would probably lock in a mild pattern until the end of November.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Gusty
28 October 2015 07:54:38


 


Just talking about that on Twitter. It looks to mostly be the result of polar maritime air on some of the individual runs spreading southwards rather than anything of note. What is clear on some of the perturbations is a very strong PV to the northwest which would probably lock in a mild pattern until the end of November.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Thanks for that Brian. I hadn't had time to check the individual perturbations. It is all certainly indicative of an increasingly mobile and unsettled set up as we move through November.


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nsrobins
28 October 2015 16:12:50
A bulk standard pattern develops into November with low heights to the NW and high pressure to the S and SE. Mild and more unsettled the further NW you are.
Of course I'm waiting with anticipation for the sudden change to cold and snowy conditions promised to me by Madden et al. Let me just check when that was due to start .... whoops 😉😂
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Rob K
28 October 2015 16:26:20
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Maunder Minimum
28 October 2015 19:52:19

No cold and snowy conditions but certainly a change of weather type from the benign conditions of late if these come to pass Originally Posted by: Rob K 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif


Was that a link to the 12z? Looks very benign to me with HP in charge, so we cannot be looking at the same charts can we?


New world order coming.
Bugglesgate
28 October 2015 19:54:38


">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Was that a link to the 12z? Looks very benign to me with HP in charge, so we cannot be looking at the same charts can we?



 


That's what I was just thinking -that  chart  looks fab down here , actually !


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
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Rob K
28 October 2015 21:04:28


">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Was that a link to the 12z? Looks very benign to me with HP in charge, so we cannot be looking at the same charts can we?



 


Ha - no, it was the 06Z with a mega depression out in the Atlantic. The perils of linking to FI charts...


 


12Z looks just fine.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Brian Gaze
28 October 2015 21:06:19

Blowtorch GEM run tonight:



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Sevendust
28 October 2015 21:40:58


Blowtorch GEM run tonight:



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Hungry Tiger
28 October 2015 23:00:29


Blowtorch GEM run tonight:



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Bloody Hell. We could be looking at 20C for the end of the first week of November :-O


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
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Brian Gaze
29 October 2015 18:36:18

At this stage the comparisons are with 1979. By early December the comparisons are with 1963. By mid January 1947 comes into the frame. Come April the analogue is recorded as 1989!  


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Charmhills
29 October 2015 18:57:36

November 1946 was very mild and than look what happen so there is hope of sorts.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Polar Low
29 October 2015 19:15:48

Yes Brian but my diary of the time tells me even 1989 had its moments for cold weather fans like me


The warm weather at the end of March gave some indication of what was to come but as soon as the month turned in, Arctic conditions returned more significantly across the country in that some areas some their heaviest snowfall of the whole season. Parts of the South East and Southern England had a good covering of up to 7 inches deep on Tues 4th/Wed 5th APRIL. Slightly milder conditions did follow in after but the snow remained across the higher ground in the country. Overall, April turned out to have below average temperatures and was the only month in 1989 that saw its CET below normal. The weather throughout was very unsettled with plenty of heavy rain right up until the last day.


 



 


 



At this stage the comparisons are with 1979. By early December the comparisons are with 1963. By mid January 1947 comes into the frame. Come April the analogue is recorded as 1989!  


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
29 October 2015 19:40:44


At this stage the comparisons are with 1979. By early December the comparisons are with 1963. By mid January 1947 comes into the frame. Come April the analogue is recorded as 1989!  


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


For the optimists yes. However a committed pessimist must already have serious doubts about this winter's prospects.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Polar Low
29 October 2015 19:45:25

As long as Brian does not use polar bears on one of his winter updates we always have a chance



 


For the optimists yes. However a committed pessimist must already have serious doubts about this winter's prospects.


Originally Posted by: RobN 

doctormog
29 October 2015 20:01:10
Ah, yes good to see psychology has overtaken NWP output in the Model thread. I guess it shows the lack of wintry output at this stage of Autumn rather than anything else?

At a glance the output seems to continue to alternate between varieties of a "southerly quarter" theme. The end result being some SEly murk, some southerly averageness and some southwesterly warmth. Nothing too exciting in terms of absolute conditions but perhaps some notably high temperatures for the time of year and maybe even some rather pleasant conditions albeit with the usual "less settled the further NW you are" caveat.

Naturally of course none of this tells us anything about the forthcoming winter based on historical and scientific evidence (unless I am missing something)
Charmhills
29 October 2015 20:10:49

ECM 12z look more unsettled after the weekend on tonight run.


Quite similar to what we have now.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Andy Woodcock
29 October 2015 21:13:18
GFS has the Euroslug persisting during it's entire run, if only a Greenland High could be as stable!

However, better to have gruesome charts like this now than in 8 weeks time. To be honest current Synoptics are as bad as anything you want to see in winter, that slug is one Ugly bast*rd.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Stormchaser
29 October 2015 23:29:15

I sense I high risk of persistent drizzle across eastern parts on that 12z ECM op run which is not a pleasant prospect. GFS keeps that more at bay with a lot of dry conditions - more usable for outdoor activities, but not so good for the aquifers that the likes of London rely on mid-spring to early autumn.


Aside from that drizzle risk, I'm fine with mild conditions this month, in fact I see the Nov-Dec (maybe into Jan) period as probably our best chance to experience remarkably high winter temperatures within the next decade or so, given the expected lack of solar activity. By contrast, the winter of 2016/17 may well see the most favourable stratospheric signals in a long time (if the QBO is easterly by then), so as far as I'm concerned at least the first half of 2015/16 is of little concern to me unless the stratosphere/polar vortex behave very unexpectedly within the next 4-6 weeks.


In some ways I look forward to putting my mind to other things for a change when the weather proves of unusually little interest e.g. during 'Euroslug' or 'Bartlett High' periods. Admittedly that has happened quite a bit this past summer/autumn already - there really has been a remarkable lack of extremes since that one-day-wonder that kicked off July... which I wasn't even here for. The only thing of note has been the lack of rain across eastern parts of England, but even that hasn't been exeptional; October 2011 was drier here, for example.


 


Hopefully my gut feeling will be proved wrong and November will see some much more interesting model output before too long, giving cause for this thread to get back on topic 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Gooner
30 October 2015 07:47:23


Be a long wait but worth it lol   J F F


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gusty
30 October 2015 08:15:18

Still nothing particularly troubling in the longer term outlook. 


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Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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ARTzeman
30 October 2015 08:18:35

What will "El Nino" do for us this year.. Not much to November . Maybe late December....






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Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
Nordic Snowman
30 October 2015 09:02:26


What will "El Nino" do for us this year.. Not much to November . Maybe late December....


Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 


I personally think that once this benign Euro High breaks (probably mid November), I suspect a period of stormy weather awaits with deep depressions sweeping in from the Atlantic. This will tie in with the expected El Nino type of pattern. The temperature gradient in the N Atlantic will more than likely fuel the intensity of the storms. IMHO.


Bjorli, Norway

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