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Phil G
01 January 2016 16:16:27
Looks like GFS has come up with another variation of the same theme, a triple yolker.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1441.gif 


Phil G
01 January 2016 16:18:40
If that jet intensifies a tad more, then possibility of sting jet scenario.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1501.gif 

Phil G
01 January 2016 16:21:28
What a horrible complex system. Too hard to model properly at this stage, but the message is stormy.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1621.gif 



warrenb
01 January 2016 16:27:57
That is what happens when a lump of pv drops on your doorstep. Still think the cold Atlantic pool is creating cyclogenesis and the attempt at the blocking has been scuppered by this.
sriram
01 January 2016 16:29:54


 


I do not believe this, the polar vortex is still weakening. The reason we are on the cusp of a cold spell now (even if it won't be realized) is probably a consequence of this weakening. This process is projected to continue, as we progress through January cold spells will become ever more likely.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


If the polar Vortex is weakening why are we progged to see no end in sight for the Atlantic barrage for next 2 weeks at least ?


Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Fothergill
01 January 2016 16:31:39

What a horrible complex system. Too hard to model properly at this stage, but the message is stormy.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1621.gif

Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Should be a lot of interesting convective weather too with those low heights and pressures. Hailstorms, thunderstorms..


More interesting at least than weeks of permanent tropical maritime clag IMO.

JACKO4EVER
01 January 2016 16:32:03

Looks like GFS has come up with another variation of the same theme, a triple yolker.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1441.gif


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


yes, more vile output. Stormy, cooler and wet just about sums it up. I am really lost as to how we get HP in our vicinity to calm things down. flooding will be sadly making headlines again in the coming week or so if some of this verifies. 

Andy Woodcock
01 January 2016 16:32:55
MetO has a proper easterly across the UK on Tuesday but not sure what upper temperatures would be like. It's a much more direct feed than that previously shown, clearly an upgrade even if it's a temporary one.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Phil G
01 January 2016 16:33:20

A bit too warm for most, but in years gone by that 528 line over us would have generated some more interest.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1983.gif


 

pdiddy
01 January 2016 16:34:53

Still some options for height rises in Greenland... too early to give up on cold yet!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Nuuk_ens.png

Phil G
01 January 2016 16:35:56


 


yes, more vile output. Stormy, cooler and wet just about sums it up. I am really lost as to how we get HP in our vicinity to calm things down. flooding will be sadly making headlines again in the coming week or so if some of this verifies. 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Luckily we won't be in a phase of high tides, but the south and western side of the country can expect some large waves and erosion.

Charmhills
01 January 2016 16:37:08


 


Should be a lot of interesting convective weather too with those low heights and pressures. Hailstorms, thunderstorms..


More interesting at least than weeks of permanent tropical maritime clag IMO.


Originally Posted by: Fothergill 


Yes, that happened in January 2014 as active systems moved in from the west/southwest.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Phil G
01 January 2016 16:44:43
Yikes, this little zipper bit too close for this neck of the woods.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2289.gif 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2281.gif 

Sure the above won't be modelled on the next run, but seems to me someone somewhere is going to cop out in the not too distant given some of the charts produced and their volatility.
Quantum
01 January 2016 16:45:57


 


 


If the polar Vortex is weakening why are we progged to see no end in sight for the Atlantic barrage for next 2 weeks at least ?


Originally Posted by: sriram 


For all we know it could be freezing easterlies in 14 days time. But a weakening polar vortex means a more wavy jet, it doesn't mean we are guaranteed to be on the right side of the wave. Nevertheless, as the flow becomes more meridonal the probability of a cold spell increases. 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
01 January 2016 16:46:35


Do not rule out heavy snow north of that front.


LP


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I'm not sure about Monday but it looks quite conducive for snow to relatively low levels up here on Tuesday. That aside the 12z output continues with the very unsettled picture with more stupid amounts of rain and damaging winds at times. Less mild than recently but that cold to the NE really doesn't want to "play ball".


Lots of details still to be determined and this looks like being the case on a daily basis - even more so than usual!


Gandalf The White
01 January 2016 16:47:28


 


It could be, but I'd have thought they would have stated the boundaries if that's the case. The fact the chart is labelled for both 500 heights and surface pressure doesn't help either!


I'll have to check over the next few runs to see whether the control fits inside that range even when it's not an outlier. Hey, I get to say "as ever, more runs are needed" for the first time in many a year!


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Thanks for the earlier response.  I was going to post that the spread has to be either dam or millibars; I had always assumed the former. At least the 850hPa spread chart is easier to interpret because it's showing degrees celsius....


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Phil G
01 January 2016 16:49:17
Main Low pressure finally forecast to find its way just to the east of us pulling in a cold north westerly.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.gif 

Temps pretty chilly, especially up north.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.gif 

Quantum
01 January 2016 16:49:25

The 12Z is a massive upgrade, no one should rule out a cold spell before 180 hours with this. The trend for rising heights over Greenland continues, while a ridge and cold pool is maintained over scandanavia. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gandalf The White
01 January 2016 16:54:37


The 12Z is a massive upgrade, no one should rule out a cold spell before 180 hours with this. The trend for rising heights over Greenland continues, while a ridge and cold pool is maintained over scandanavia. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


There has been a signal for pressure to fall towards Scandinavia and bring us all into the colder air, but sadly nothing yet (out to T+264) to block or divert the jet.


 


For the Midlands and maybe northern Home Counties there's a rare thing from the 12z, widespread snow for a while. Too far out to take seriously but of interest nonetheless. 




Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Quantum
01 January 2016 16:56:47

We really need to watch situations like this



If the isobars open out and the winds are south easterly, evaporational cooling will kick in a big way. Do not rule out widespread surprise snowfall next week. Perhaps more interestingly, why are the isobars widening out? Some of the energy is still going SE, and the 12Z is similar to the most optimistic ensembles of the 6Z.


After the 12Z the odds of a cold spell in the near future probably increased from 10% to 25%


 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nsrobins
01 January 2016 17:01:46
I'd drop the fixation with cold and snow. The headlines for the next week will be more the rain and potentially stormy weather. The synoptics delivering a rapidly deepening daughter low are being repeatedly modelled.

Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
01 January 2016 17:05:11

I'd drop the fixation with cold and snow. The headlines for the next week will be more the rain and potentially stormy weather. The synoptics delivering a rapidly deepening daughter low are being repeatedly modelled.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Are we really going to see that much rain? Low heights look intimidating, but we had them alot during 2013 and there was no mass flooding.


The thing that causes problem rain is warmth and moisture + a lifting mechanism (usually a cold front). Despite the outlook looking LP dominated we are to the north of any triple point, and this is especially the case of the likes of Cumbria, Yorkshire e.c.t.


Showers yes, and some rain when occluded fronts pass by, but certainty not the totals we saw under a dominant south westerly. And cold air is not that far away, snow should not be ruled out and in fact I expect shetland is likely to see some disruptive snow next week.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
David M Porter
01 January 2016 17:08:49


The 12Z is a massive upgrade, no one should rule out a cold spell before 180 hours with this. The trend for rising heights over Greenland continues, while a ridge and cold pool is maintained over scandanavia. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


It does look as though to me that while it is likely to remain zonal, it is not likely to be of the same type of zonality that we experienced throughout last month and November. Temps to be look like returning to nearer average, especially the further north one happens to be.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
sunny coast
01 January 2016 17:19:47

BBc weather about an hour ago forecast up to 200 mm for parts of NE scotland from tomo through monday 

nickl
01 January 2016 17:21:13
The NH profile at day 10 of the gfs op looks very promising for sustained cold but as is often the case, the push of vortex from Asia back to Canada scuppers what may have been a spectacular deep fi.

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