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David M Porter
06 January 2016 09:40:15


The outlook is fair to say is cold, maybe even locally very cold with a snow risk for some.


Detail to far away to pin down though.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


These charts we are seeing now are a world away from those we've been used to seeing for the past two months, that is for sure.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Stormchaser
06 January 2016 09:43:49

May the trend be our friend...


We've been here before of course, with apparent agreement on a significant cold spell, only for things to go pear-shaped... BUT the hemispheric setup and tropical drivers this time around are easily as good as I've seen since the precursor to March 2013 so I'm feeling optimistic 


A check of the postage stamps for GEFS 00z at +180 reveals a majority with a decent mid-Atlantic ridge and almost half are playing with a proper block over Greenland. Only around 10% power the Atlantic through 


Really some of the ensemble based output this morning is phenomenal, for example:


https://twitter.com/MattHugo81/status/684662502945353728


Which displays a strong signal from both GEFS and the EC ensembles for blocking to the NW and over Siberia - always a fun combination to work with as a pronounced Scandi trough wanders about and teases at pulling in extra cold from the NE for example.


Even that lackluster ECM 00z op run isn't half bad, with snow chances in England on Tuesday thanks to that shortwave feature and continued hints of sliding lows into Scandi making things interesting beyond day 10. It essentially seems to be heading for a version of the GFS 00z in which everything is located a thousand or so miles further east - still plenty cold but drier and arguably a lot less interesting for some. Depends what exactly you're after I suppose!


 


Now then, where's my skeptic hat, I need that to remain level-headed!


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Saint Snow
06 January 2016 09:46:04


The key in allowing the block to take root and extend N appears to be the behaviour of the Canadian trough and maybe more importantly the puddle of energy down SW of the Azores. NOAA have been suggesting GFS in particular was being too progressive with the Canadian low and it would likely 'meander' - this is now the case on the 00Z OP. Also, and not just GFS, the 00Z runs have made much more of the low in the mid-Atlantic such that it serves to prop-up the high and eventually give it the nudge it needs to go towards and marry the Greenland block.


Small changes having big effects and all that. 


The upshot is a much more prolonged cold spell is likely for W Europe - detail to be announced!


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 



 


Good summary, using terminology I understand!


Nice to see the MO emotional roller coaster on a peak this morning.


 


PS - WRT Steve Murr, wasn't his 'out on a limb' post the other day talking about the transfer of heights from the Siberian/Scandinavian High westwards toward Greenland (or at least the transfer of conditions conducive to building heights over Greenland)? It made sense at the time - and current output does lend some credence )if it comes off), even if there's been a delay in the development of a Greenland High



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
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Polar Low
06 January 2016 09:48:07

Thanks James,  take note cc



May the trend be our friend...


We've been here before of course, with apparent agreement on a significant cold spell, only for things to go pear-shaped... BUT the hemispheric setup and tropical drivers this time around are easily as good as I've seen since the precursor to March 2013 so I'm feeling optimistic 


A check of the postage stamps for GEFS 00z at +180 reveals a majority with a decent mid-Atlantic ridge and almost half are playing with a proper block over Greenland. Only around 10% power the Atlantic through 


Really some of the ensemble based output this morning is phenomenal, for example:


https://twitter.com/MattHugo81/status/684662502945353728


Which displays a strong signal from both GEFS and the EC ensembles for blocking to the NW and over Siberia - always a fun combination to work with as a pronounced Scandi trough wanders about and teases at pulling in extra cold from the NE for example.


Even that lackluster ECM 00z op run isn't half bad, with snow chances in England on Tuesday thanks to that shortwave feature and continued hints of sliding lows into Scandi making things interesting beyond day 10. It essentially seems to be heading for a version of the GFS 00z in which everything is located a thousand or so miles further east - still plenty cold but drier and arguably a lot less interesting for some. Depends what exactly you're after I suppose!


 


Now then, where's my skeptic hat, I need that to remain level-headed!


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Solar Cycles
06 January 2016 09:57:25
We'll knock me down with a feather. No sooner do I jump the cold is coming ship up pops a cold snap which is looking more and more likely to turn into something much longer, even Joe B is thinking along the lines of another 2009/10 albeit a month later. It's certainly looking like heights pushing up from the Azores are more robust than I previously thought and with troughing thrown into the mix early next week some widespread snow cannot be ruled out.
Polar Low
06 January 2016 10:00:28

I agree Saint think that was ot from Kev perhaps his having a bad hair day.



 


 



 


Good summary, using terminology I understand!


Nice to see the MO emotional roller coaster on a peak this morning.


 


PS - WRT Steve Murr, wasn't his 'out on a limb' post the other day talking about the transfer of heights from the Siberian/Scandinavian High westwards toward Greenland (or at least the transfer of conditions conducive to building heights over Greenland)? It made sense at the time - and current output does lend some credence )if it comes off), even if there's been a delay in the development of a Greenland High


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

David M Porter
06 January 2016 10:03:41

In many ways, it's just a pity we didn't get the kind of pattern change now being suggested by the models a month or so ago. Had there been a change around then, many of the communities across the country that have suffered terrible flooding in the past month probably would have been spared from it. Where I live, the ground was well saturated by the time we reached the end of November, so sadly the amount of flooding that has occured since hasn't been any great surprise.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Bow Echo
06 January 2016 10:04:47


"The train is coming only when you can see the train", as Ian Brown used to say


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 Ahh, but if you drive the train, as I do for the day (and night) job, then you know the train is at least moving, even if no one can see it yet. It's all about relativity and observation.


oooh, a bit Eric Cantona there. I'll get my coat!


Steve D. FRMetS
Burton Latimer, Kettering, Northants


Gandalf The White
06 January 2016 10:19:55


 


 



 


Good summary, using terminology I understand!


Nice to see the MO emotional roller coaster on a peak this morning.


 


PS - WRT Steve Murr, wasn't his 'out on a limb' post the other day talking about the transfer of heights from the Siberian/Scandinavian High westwards toward Greenland (or at least the transfer of conditions conducive to building heights over Greenland)? It made sense at the time - and current output does lend some credence )if it comes off), even if there's been a delay in the development of a Greenland High


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Steve M was suggesting retrogression of the upper high from northern Russia to Greenland, altogether a different mechanism to the currently projected evolution.


Steve has some interesting insights to offer but he does get carried away at times and personally I've learned to treat his musings as just another knowledgeable view on offer. Generally they need lots of pieces of the jigsaw puzzle to fall exactly right and we all know that's generally a long shot.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


stophe
06 January 2016 10:20:19

Out to 144 looking pretty similar.


Gandalf The White
06 January 2016 10:22:30


 


 Ahh, but if you drive the train, as I do for the day (and night) job, then you know the train is at least moving, even if no one can see it yet. It's all about relativity and observation.


oooh, a bit Eric Cantona there. I'll get my coat!


Originally Posted by: Bow Echo 


You missed out the reference to seagulls....


As a driver you'll know about trains breaking down or being re-routed...



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


briggsy6
06 January 2016 10:24:21

Not really excited by this upcoming cold spell in terms of actual cold (northerlies in this location usually deliver temp of average or just below), but it will be nice to have some dry weather for a change. Particularly welcome for areas such as Cumbria and N.E. Scotland which have suffered such dramatic flooding so far this winter.


Location: Uxbridge
Bow Echo
06 January 2016 10:27:03


 


You missed out the reference to seagulls....


As a driver you'll know about trains breaking down or being re-routed...



Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


LOL! At least I always get a seat!!


Steve D. FRMetS
Burton Latimer, Kettering, Northants


Sinky1970
06 January 2016 10:27:32
It's still look's like cold rain or no rain for majority of the country in 7 days or so according to the latest GFS output unless you live above 2000ft or so.
The Beast from the East
06 January 2016 10:30:08

Bit of a Carlsberg run


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Russwirral
06 January 2016 10:31:05
stonking great big Polar High on this mornings output.... it keeps inflating too :)

This could be a stella run, even compared to the 00z
Shropshire
06 January 2016 10:35:20

The distribution of energy coming out of the States is very important, the GFS has a lot going into the Southern arm thus propping up the Atlantic/Greenland High. The ECM has less of this energy and thus the Azores Low is WSW of the High by day 8. 


 


Subsequent runs will resolve this and is key to longevity, obviously the holy grail would be full link up with the Atlantic/Greenland High with the raised Arctic heights as this would be a lock in for cold.


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nsrobins
06 January 2016 10:36:43

It's still look's like cold rain or no rain for majority of the country in 7 days or so according to the latest GFS output unless you live above 2000ft or so.

Originally Posted by: Sinky1970 


Not sure what your expectations are, unless you'll only settle for a 1963 scenario!


That cheeky Azores low once again doing the business. A great run if you like cold, frost and snow.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
idj20
06 January 2016 10:37:08

The GFS 06z does seem to show a more "firmed up" northerly airflow for this time next week - and it doesn't even need a Scandi high to keep the cold going (instead totally relying on a Greeny and pressure falling off towards the south east). However, it does look somewhat slack and flaccid and like others said, a slack northerly flow doesn't really do much for me in terms of snow potential as it would have got modified by the time it arrives at this end as the 850's are still borderline - even in January.
  However, to see anything other than relentless bombing lows crashing in from the Atlantic showing up on the charts is a sight for sore eyes. Frosty nights and gin blue skies by day suits me just fine, any snowfall that does come out of it would be a bit of an extra bonus as far as my back yard is concerned.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Solar Cycles
06 January 2016 10:42:18

stonking great big Polar High on this mornings output.... it keeps inflating too :)

This could be a stella run, even compared to the 00z

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

Something Joe B alluded to earlier.🙊

soperman
06 January 2016 10:43:09

It's still look's like cold rain or no rain for majority of the country in 7 days or so according to the latest GFS output unless you live above 2000ft or so.

Originally Posted by: Sinky1970 


 


Far less rainfall though as has been suggested above.  Northerlies tend to bring good frosts UK wide and the threat of heavy snow for Scotland.


The trend is good and Southerners looking out for an Easterly should not discount disturbances flowing up from the South West!


A change to colder weather is now on the way - open to speculation is how cold and for how long.


It will be interesting tonight to see if the ECM continues to topple or retrogresses to Greenie


 

Rob K
06 January 2016 10:43:12
Lovely stuff by 222 hours - disturbances running down the country in a bitter northerly flow. Even southern areas might benefit from that sort of setup (albeit the dreaded mild sectors would no doubt appear!)
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
ITSY
06 January 2016 10:43:48


The GFS 06z does seem to show a more "firmed up" northerly airflow airflow for this time next week - and it doesn't even need a Scandi high to keep the cold going (instead totally relying on a Greeny and pressure falling off towards the south east). However, it does look somewhat slack and flaccid, and like others said, a slack northerly flow doesn't really do much for me in terms of snow potential as it would have got modified by the time it arrives at this end - even in January.
  However, to see anything other than relentless bombing lows crashing in from the Atlantic showing up on the charts is a sight for sore eyes. Frosty nights and gin blue skies by day suits me just fine, any snowfall that does come out of it would be a bit of an extra bonus as far as my back yard is concerned.


Originally Posted by: idj20 


 


this is the same for most of us on here. In my mind though, a sustained block of cold air is the first step we need. A northerly with widespread -6--10c uppers is bound to have troughs and kinks embedded within that are rarely seen at this distance. Similarly the orientation of the wind only needs go a few degrees to the east to encourage limited coastal convection, so I wouldn't worry too much about snow charts at this stage - although you are right in principle. This doesn't appear like your average northerly either! 

Shropshire
06 January 2016 10:43:51

It's still look's like cold rain or no rain for majority of the country in 7 days or so according to the latest GFS output unless you live above 2000ft or so.

Originally Posted by: Sinky1970 


 


If we only get cold rain from the proposed set-up then it's time to pack up ! 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Rob K
06 January 2016 10:45:54

My in-laws are off to the Alps that weekend - better tell them to take extra thermals!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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