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SJV
11 January 2016 17:16:40

To be honest, looking at the NH view, you can see the GFS is completely different every run.

Originally Posted by: warrenb 


Was thinking the same thing, it's all over the place at the moment and out of its depth. 


That said, if the 18z is a snowfest all is forgiven 

Whether Idle
11 January 2016 17:19:58

Modele UKMO - Carte prévisions


UKMO 144 requires the full treatment, but confidence is very low in any one outcome.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
11 January 2016 17:21:17

GEFS12z looks to be firing up the Atlantic. I'm not a big fan of the mean charts but this actually isn't far off what most show at 180.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Gandalf The White
11 January 2016 17:27:55


 Facepalm time!


At least the reason for the difference is clear to see on this occasion. So what causes it?


Simple actually - there's a shortwave between the Azores and U.S. troughs at +96 hours which does different things in each case;


UKMO merges it with the Azores low which amplifies that feature and enhances the ridge ahead as the poleward flow is enhanced.


GFS on the other hand merges it with the U.S. trough and amplifies that feature, which due to the presence of the Azores low ends up firing a strong jet E then NE.


 


GFS was closer to the UKMO 12z solution with its 00z run, in which it merged the 'middle shortwave' with both the U.S. and Azores features simultaneously. Then the 06z favoured the U.S. trough and the 12z has taken that idea further still. So the question is, whether UKMO is lagging behind or GFS is being misleading?


 


 


Notice that purple blob just off the N coast of Greenland - that's the remnants of the Svalbard low that I talked about this morning,a nd again it looks to be headed for the Pacific trough instead of the Canadian/U.S./Atlantic one.


That latter trough is a fair bit west of the 00z, though. A nice trend if it could be maintained!


 


So where's ECM going to go... it actually had the 'middle shortwave' as I call it merging with the Azores low on the 00z, which gave the impression that it might persist the cold, blocked theme beyond day 6... but then it had the Svalbard low merging with the Atlantic trough and the blocking was knocked down with fury.


With two key features that need to behave favourably to produce an ECM run that prolongs the cold, you could say we have a 1 in 4 chance tonight. Factor in the chaotic nature of the atmosphere though, and who knows what the true odds are for something like the UKMO 12z...!


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


GFS has been handling the energy exiting the Eastern Seaboard differently for at least 4-5 days now, consistently pushing a small pulse of energy eastwards and inhibiting or preventing the WAA.  It was shown to be wrong with the first pulse because IIRC last week;s charts showed this cold spell was ended by the Atlantic before this coming weekend.


How ECM handles the evolution will be fascinating.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


warrenb
11 January 2016 17:30:04

Short ENS has control and op at top of 850s and T2M


Whether Idle
11 January 2016 17:40:49


Short ENS has control and op at top of 850s and T2M


Originally Posted by: warrenb 


Misleading, are they.


Here is the GEM control @132:



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Charmhills
11 January 2016 17:42:48

I must admit the GFS really is starting to annoy me now!


Good Met/o 12z.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Gooner
11 January 2016 17:54:10


Latest UKMO public GloSea5 update stays consistent: a (v broad!) idea of higher pressure to W/N; lower to E, Feb-Apr


From IF


Also from I F ( Below)


Chilly start! Well, an interesting few days coming-up... especially given how modelling is struggling with nearer-term features, with confidence low into medium range. Indeed, just last night UKMO noted how a combination of factors *could* mean effectively colder conditions being in-situ across the next 15 days (note models inevitably lean to shunting colder blocks aside far too quickly). So, we might be in a bit of a rut for at least a while, trying to nail-down awkward local detail when it comes to rain v sleet v snow. Forewarned and all that....!!


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Solar Cycles
11 January 2016 17:57:06



Latest UKMO public GloSea5 update stays consistent: a (v broad!) idea of higher pressure to W/N; lower to E, Feb-Apr


From IF


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Tasty.

Charmhills
11 January 2016 17:59:13

The Met have been hinting at a colder February and into the first part of Spring for some time now.


In fact since November.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
soperman
11 January 2016 18:00:11


Short ENS has control and op at top of 850s and T2M


Originally Posted by: warrenb 


 


Yep. GFS takes us from cold to early spring next week.


 


Although the verification stats show us that GFS is actually quite close to ECM, they do not tell us that when it goes wrong, how wrong it goes.


When GFS is over-progressive it's like a Jack Russell on a diet of Vodka Red Bull's and dodgy mushrooms!! 


 


ECM needs to rescue my gloom.


 


   

The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:18:56

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2016011112/ECM1-96.GIF?11-0


ECM so far


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Chunky Pea
11 January 2016 18:20:19


I must admit the GFS really is starting to annoy me now!


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


 


It might be annoying but it is not to be ignored either, as it has preformed mightily well these last few days imo.


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:21:38

not as good as UKMO. probably end up like GEM


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:23:48

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2016011112/ECM0-120.GIF?11-0


hopefully we can get some convection off the north sea before it sinks


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Bertwhistle
11 January 2016 18:24:24

ECM 120


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/ecm/120_mslp850.png?cb=969


Just needs that high to hook over east a bit, and that little low to keep on sinking. If that pattern can set in for-I don't know- 36 hours?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Whether Idle
11 January 2016 18:27:37


ECM 120


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/ecm/120_mslp850.png?cb=969


Just needs that high to hook over east a bit, and that little low to keep on sinking. If that pattern can set in for-I don't know- 36 hours?


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


Possibly.  Wouldn't worry too much about detail as at day 5 the differences between the models are stark, particularly to the NW.  More runs needed.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:28:01

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2016011112/navgem-0-168.png?11-18


at least NAVGEM still keeping the faith


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
11 January 2016 18:28:06


Certainly chilly ECM 120


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:29:04

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2016011112/J108-21.GIF?11-12


And JMA too


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:30:18

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2016011112/ECM1-144.GIF?11-0


close but no cigar. at least still enough to keep us going


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Whether Idle
11 January 2016 18:30:20


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2016011112/navgem-0-168.png?11-18


at least NAVGEM still keeping the faith


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Ive always rated NAVGEM.  Good chart though, in deepest darkest FI.  Chances of coming off - low, much like the GFS


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gandalf The White
11 January 2016 18:31:47


 


 


It might be annoying but it is not to be ignored either, as it has preformed mightily well these last few days imo.


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Don't overlook that not long ago GFS predicted the cold spell being shunted aside by the end of this week.  Personally I wouldn't put the words 'performed well' and GFS in the same sentence based on the last 5-6 days.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


The Beast from the East
11 January 2016 18:32:07

with deep cold air entrenched, at least we may get a snowy breakdown


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
11 January 2016 18:32:48


Going the way of......................................


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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