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David M Porter
14 January 2016 09:27:29


 


Justin, I said HISTORICALLY, in recent years, the kind of zonality being projected has on average a 4 week shelf life. I said then that there were signs that if it takes hold then it may not last that long. I now definitely believe it won't last anything like that long.


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


I sure hope not. We've just come off the back of a 10 week long spell of zonality that has left numerous parts of the country flooded.


I very much hope that you're right in this instance, Ian.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Rob K
14 January 2016 09:39:42


 


That could well be correct two more fascinating quotes from Ian Fergusson on Twitter.


 



.whilst the parallel UKMO-GM starts mobility again next week *but* (unlike recent GFS), only across latitudes S of the UK.


 


subtropical storm Alex important in broadscale mix: huge amounts of warm air advection into W Atlantic to bolster blocking.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


it seems strange that just as Ian F, posts that, all three main models trend notably back towards a quicker breakdown. 


 


Well OK, not strange. Just about par for the course :)


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Shropshire
14 January 2016 09:50:45


 


 


it seems strange that just as Ian F, posts that, all three main models trend notably back towards a quicker breakdown. 


 


Well OK, not strange. Just about par for the course :)


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Yes, METO have been playing catch up with their updates behind the publicly available NWP rather than the other way round.


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Notty
14 January 2016 09:55:26
Block is putting up a little more fight according to GFS 06z
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=78&mode=1 


Notty
Pontypool, 132m asl
tallyho_83
14 January 2016 09:57:43

A long way off but -28c isn't that further east:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3481.gif




Met O update say drier and below average in the SE later???


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


David M Porter
14 January 2016 10:01:25

If the MetO are still forseeing a change to a generally more blocked pattern as we head towards February, then hopefully we may start to see the first building blocks of it in the model output later this month. They first mentioned this when they issued their three month update back in late November and they were still thinking along these lines when they updated their forecast just before New Year.


Although ECM shows milder air returning next week, by 240hrs it looks to my eyes as it HP is attempting to build back in from the south. GFS in FI shows pressure rising to the NE and possibly joining forces with the Azores High. Let's hope that Ian is right with his thoughts that assuming zonality does return, it won't last anything as long as the recent spell.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Notty
14 January 2016 10:05:18

Morning all.
a big downgrade this morning for cold weather fans, crucial runs today or the writing could be on the wall. A flip back to the extension of colder weather is possible, but somewhat unlikely.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Why is "a flip back to the extension of colder weather somewhat unlikely"?


Notty
Pontypool, 132m asl
Notty
14 January 2016 10:07:18
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=120&mode=1  - Warm sector being squeezed out on this run
Notty
Pontypool, 132m asl
Shropshire
14 January 2016 10:16:22

Yes it's a better run Lazy but IMO just delaying the inevitable. We want to see a disconnection between the Azores High and the developing High over the low countries. 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Maunder Minimum
14 January 2016 10:18:43

The only thing which is apparent to me is that output beyond t+96 cannot be relied upon. Clearly, we are in an unusual synoptic setup, with which the models are struggling.


New world order coming.
Weathermac
14 January 2016 10:21:36


The only thing which is apparent to me is that output beyond t+96 cannot be relied upon. Clearly, we are in an unusual synoptic setup, with which the models are struggling.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


it is very unusual i have never seen a subtropical storm move south to north like alex and certainly not in january ...this must have effects down the line...

Gooner
14 January 2016 10:26:05


 


 


Yes, METO have been playing catch up with their updates behind the publicly available NWP rather than the other way round.


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


Oh come off it.............everyone has seen the UKMO has been pretty much spot on so far , how do you work that out.


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Russwirral
14 January 2016 10:29:15
GFS showing a block to have a little more muscle on this run.

However i can see this just being a boring return to westerlies. In this situation its best to get it over with asap so we can start looking for new cold features again. This can sometimes drag out for a long time and be quite featureless.

In the short term, it will be interesting to see if anyone gets some serious low temps in their back yards this weekend. Coldest nights for about 3 yrs in the offing.
Gooner
14 January 2016 10:29:58

If GFS is correct , Monday is looking like a cold wintry day with snow falling ...................'if' its right


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


JACKO4EVER
14 January 2016 10:34:42


If GFS is correct , Monday is looking like a cold wintry day with snow falling ...................'if' its right


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


big IF Marcus. We may get some impressive overnight minima in the next couple of days, but for the majority of folk it's another cold spell that may be consigned to the bin. It was supposed to sleet and snow all day here according to last nights forecast- what a surprise that the light rain has now turned into sunny spells. 

tallyho_83
14 January 2016 10:42:22


If GFS is correct , Monday is looking like a cold wintry day with snow falling ...................'if' its right


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Yes but yesterday it looked like it fizzled out before reaching Devon but now it looks like fizzling out before it reaches the home counties & SE (London included) - so it's moved further eastwards but there still seems uncertainty.


http://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20160114/06/99/prectypeuktopo.png


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
14 January 2016 11:04:17
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.gif 


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Shropshire
14 January 2016 11:07:05


 


Oh come off it.............everyone has seen the UKMO has been pretty much spot on so far , how do you work that out.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


What I'm saying is that we were able to see a cold spell developing from the NWP before it was given any credance in the METO updates. Then there updates started to mention ' a low possibility' of a brief much colder spell (for right now).


 


In the past, the METO updates have talked about possible colder spells that have not necessarily been apparent in the 'FI' parts of the NWP, I'm not referring to the UKMO model.


 


 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
kmoorman
14 January 2016 11:09:03


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.gif 


 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


It may simply be the specific wavelength of the flow has moved, so where the was previously a High, it's been shifted West or East in the flow, and a low has been placed where it was.   It looks very different though.


Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
Follow me on Twitter @kmoorman1968
Rob K
14 January 2016 11:09:54


 


 


What I'm saying is that we were able to see a cold spell developing from the NWP before it was given any credance in the METO updates. Then there updates started to mention ' a low possibility' of a brief much colder spell (for right now).


 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


But we see plenty of cold spells developing in the NWP that never occur at all. So you can see why the Met Office don't mention them until they appear on their own output!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
14 January 2016 11:23:08


 


 


it seems strange that just as Ian F, posts that, all three main models trend notably back towards a quicker breakdown. 


 


Well OK, not strange. Just about par for the course :)


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Its called the Law of Sod! Why is it so difficult to get a decent cold spell in this country. Awful charts this morning.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
idj20
14 January 2016 11:43:07

JFF as at 15 days away it is all a long way off in forecasting terms and that the link to surface synoptics is tenuous at best, etc, etc, etc, but the GFS continue to maintain my interest with regards to the stratospheric 30 hpa going ons.  Look at the -85 C right over us!





Not only am I becoming a medium range model output monster, but I'm starting to sound like our Quantum! Anyway, I'm only using this as a rough experimental guide to get the feelers for conditions later on down the line. (eg, February - where I could be fooled in thinking it'll be a more wintry month than January).

PS: Why does images appear squashed in posts?


Folkestone Harbour. 
HOTandCOLD
14 January 2016 11:44:12


 


 


Its called the Law of Sod! Why is it so difficult to get a decent cold spell in this country. Awful charts this morning.


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


Depends what you're looking for in my opinion.  I'm quite happy with the following two showing snow (IMBY and then more widely).  Extended periods of very cold weather are so rare in this country that I'll take a brief cold snap with a snowy breakdown whenever I can get one.  


 


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/06_75_preciptype.png?cb=3


 


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/06_102_preciptype.png?cb=3


 


edit to fix link

tallyho_83
14 January 2016 11:54:46


 


 


It may simply be the specific wavelength of the flow has moved, so where the was previously a High, it's been shifted West or East in the flow, and a low has been placed where it was.   It looks very different though.


Originally Posted by: kmoorman 


Indeed - but this is quite a flip to say the least.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Rob K
14 January 2016 11:56:21


JFF as at 15 days away it is all a long way off in forecasting terms and that the link to surface synoptics is tenuous at best, etc, etc, etc, but the GFS continue to maintain my interest with regards to the stratospheric 30 hpa going ons.  Look at the -85 C right over us!





Not only am I becoming a medium range model output monster, but I'm starting to sound like our Quantum! Anyway, I'm only using this as a rough experimental guide to get the feelers for conditions later on down the line. (eg, February - where I could be fooled in thinking it'll be a more wintry month than January).

PS: Why does images appear squashed in posts?


Originally Posted by: idj20 


Maybe I'm confused but I thought having a very cold strat over us was bad news?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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