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David M Porter
19 January 2016 22:26:24

If there's one thing the somewhat erractic behaviour of the models over the past fortnight has shown, it is that we shouldn't be making any assumptions about what happens in the coming few weeks, IMO. Back in December there were some saying that January would also be a write-off for cold like December was. While there hasn't been the type of major cold spell as desired by many here, neither has this month thus far seen a repeat of the exceptionally wet and mild pattern that lasted throughout December.


In my view, anyone who makes assumptions about what the models & the weather will do next should be prepared to potentially end up with egg on their face. We've seen at least one occasion in the past fortnight alone where people said they believed the models would show x,y or z the next day, and they didn't.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Whether Idle
19 January 2016 22:32:14

The Euro High is on steroids on the pub run.  Monster Slug alert!


Edit:is that Maunder running to Jutland?



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Rob K
19 January 2016 22:38:58


 


If that is the case, why did the models lead us merrily up the garden path for so long and why did the Meto previously state that February could actually be a genuine winter month? (Now retracted I know as they all stick their tongues out at us and blow rasperries in our direction).


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Since when did the Met Office retract their winter forecast?


Meanwhile looks likely to be yet another run from GFS right at the top end of the ensembles. Amazing how with all the scatter into Feb it keeps showing us the mild dross on the operationals. Don't believe a word of it myself...


 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
squish
19 January 2016 22:56:19
Crumbs of comfort in the 00z NASA run, and also the 12z GFS parallel, both of which maintained a healthy scandi block and advected the cold pool west (only eventually in the case of the GFS parallel- which incidentally shows a prolonged european 'big freeze')

Not much else of note tonight though!!

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/geos/runs/2016011900/geosnh-0-222.png?19-12 

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2016011912/gfsnh-0-216.png?12 
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Gooner
19 January 2016 22:59:59


Looking at the models tonight you have to laugh, we finally have reasonable model consistency out to 240 and it's mild, wet and windy with a brand new shiny Bartlett to replace the one destroyed in mid January.


The Vortex is back over Greenland looking very happy and the MetO have removed all references to cold weather from it's MRF, so what happened to all those good teleconnections? great looking MJO,s? Potential SSW? 


I could go on but needless to say they have all proved a load of old bullocks, ElNino is the big player this year and he doesn't do northern blocking.


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


And I am sure the Met took this into consideration when producing their seasonal forecast .....saying the 2nd half of winter is best for cold


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Sinky1970
19 January 2016 23:23:56
I've just had a quick flick through most of the other models and they all look a pile of pants.
tallyho_83
19 January 2016 23:28:01

Crumbs of comfort in the 00z NASA run, and also the 12z GFS parallel, both of which maintained a healthy scandi block and advected the cold pool west (only eventually in the case of the GFS parallel- which incidentally shows a prolonged european 'big freeze')

Not much else of note tonight though!!

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/geos/runs/2016011900/geosnh-0-222.png?19-12




Originally Posted by: squish 

">http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2016011912/gfsnh-0-216.png?12


 


Hey could you send me a link to that page please?


ps - Loving the humour on here!


Just to cheer us up - those who like cold and snow). NY is expected to get 1ft of snow on Saturday!!? Lucky buggers.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gooner
19 January 2016 23:29:21

I've just had a quick flick through most of the other models and they all look a pile of pants.

Originally Posted by: Sinky1970 


Image result for Pictures of a pile of pants


They look nothing of the sort........................don't be so silly


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
19 January 2016 23:33:37


Settle for that J F F


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gandalf The White
19 January 2016 23:34:12


 


And I am sure the Met took this into consideration when producing their seasonal forecast .....saying the 2nd half of winter is best for cold


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes, a very slim chance is indeed an improvement on no chance at all....



 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gooner
19 January 2016 23:41:53

Going through the ENS the PV gets a hammering and is tossed around to all sorts of places .


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
19 January 2016 23:43:00


 


Yes, a very slim chance is indeed an improvement on no chance at all....



 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Fill your glass up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Stormchaser
19 January 2016 23:45:59

What a classic this is


We have in view a bunch of signals for a bit of added westerly momentum in the short-medium term as the AO increases (and AAM falls a bit, for those in the know), followed by a loss of momentum with amplification returning to most likely save the winter for some of us at least.


 - but the models are taking the first part of that to the extremes and the GFS op runs in particular are losing sight of the change in signals thereafter. It seems to happen far too often these days!


 


Now to be fair, the odds are indeed in favour of a westerly flow for much of the UK up until the final days of Jan at the earliest. There is just the small but not insignificant chance that the westerly momentum is being overdone to the point that a split jet event with a sliding low and an easterly are being overlooked for the latter half of next week (but look at GFSP for an exception to that rule!).


Then comes the window of opportunity, which I have been thinking to be around 28th Jan to 7th Feb, for dramatic changes to occur and set up a colder pattern with snow chances returning. I wish that period could be set in stone but as usual there is the caveat that it could take a week or so longer than that... this theoretical approach to forecasting is still rather experimental after all.


 


A sudden stratospheric warming or major midwinter warming may be a component in this change of fortunes, but not necessarily. The signs are that events in the tropics will be sufficient to drive the changes we desire with the aid of merely strong, sustained stratospheric warming as opposed to an actual event.


Factor in the usual smaller-scale uncertainties, and the message is that there's still a lot of reason to be hopeful for, but not enough reason to be certain of, some 'proper winter' for much of all of the UK by the middle of February.


That's starting to push it a bit for far-southerners I know, as the sun climbs higher in the sky and exerts greater influence on a larger proportion of the ground surface. The longer it takes, the more impressive the cold air import(s) need(s) to be in order to deliver sustainable lying snow. Feb 2009 does prove that it's very much possible though. Indeed some of my favourite days of weather occurred in that spell, with heavy convective soft hail and snow showers which may have been helped along by the increased solar input 


 


Behold the cautious optimism 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Gandalf The White
19 January 2016 23:46:05


 


Fill your glass up


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


LOL


The only way I can get upper heights at the top of the map is by turning the screen upside down.


Strangely that also produces an easterly flow, so it can't be all bad.



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


tallyho_83
19 January 2016 23:57:19



Settle for that J F F


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Could you send me the link to your above chart? - Look at this for the same day!! - JFF?



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Foghorn
19 January 2016 23:57:42
Not even a half-decent frost this week in the Northeast with all that clag about, only to be cleared away by brisk southwesterlies, and looking at every recent GFS endless rain and gales and double digit temperatures - back to square 1, after a calm and coolish January so far at least by day. 😞
Zubzero
20 January 2016 00:16:21

Tally that's a view of one of the ens runs 


You can view them individually here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php 

Zubzero
20 January 2016 00:24:32

Farewell cold see you again next month or just as likely next year


http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2016011918/graphe6_1000_281_93___.gif 


 


 

Hendon Snowman
20 January 2016 00:45:32

Crumbs of comfort in the 00z NASA run, and also the 12z GFS parallel, both of which maintained a healthy scandi block and advected the cold pool west (only eventually in the case of the GFS parallel- which incidentally shows a prolonged european 'big freeze')

Not much else of note tonight though!!

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/geos/runs/2016011900/geosnh-0-222.png?19-12

Originally Posted by: squish 

">http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2016011912/gfsnh-0-216.png?12


 


Lovely potential on these charts 

Karl Guille
20 January 2016 06:10:48
GFS ensembles a little more encouraging this morning with a fair number of easterlies trying to head our way but the route to cold appears as complex and vulnerable to change as ever!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Whether Idle
20 January 2016 07:13:54

At 192 GEM has potential...which it eventually squanders.  So some academic interest in FI at least Iberian LP required, amongst 5 other carefully phased factors



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
doctormog
20 January 2016 07:14:34

I realise the tenuous connection between UK cold and SSWs but all the same this is still worth watching IMO http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/ts.php?plot=temps&alert=1&lng=eng 

(In terms of timing and consistency, this is the first event shown by these charts this winter and the timing has not changed). It will be interesting to see its impact if/when it happens and if it does there will be impacts.


Gusty
20 January 2016 07:21:03

A quick scoot of the models before I head off for work continues to point to a much milder and mobile set up initially from the weekend before hopefully high pressure settles things down again.


The GFS in particular offers a fairly stable mid latitude block that would tie in with the Met Office longer term thoughts with cooler surface temperatures in the south. Whereas the ECM would be potentially very mild but with more atlantic influences especially further north.


GFS 168



ECM 168



GEFS suggest the low likelihood of sub 1020mb meaning that the relatively dry theme is supported.


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Snow Hoper
20 January 2016 07:47:40

Crumbs of comfort in the 00z NASA run, and also the 12z GFS parallel, both of which maintained a healthy scandi block and advected the cold pool west (only eventually in the case of the GFS parallel- which incidentally shows a prolonged european 'big freeze')

Not much else of note tonight though!!

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/geos/runs/2016011900/geosnh-0-222.png?19-12

Originally Posted by: squish 

">http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2016011912/gfsnh-0-216.png?12


 


Give it up Squish, it's been Squashed 


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Maunder Minimum
20 January 2016 07:58:23


I realise the tenuous connection between UK cold and SSWs but all the same this is still worth watching IMO http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/ts.php?plot=temps&alert=1&lng=eng 

(In terms of timing and consistency, this is the first event shown by these charts this winter and the timing has not changed). It will be interesting to see its impact if/when it happens and if it does there will be impacts.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


One thing about those Berlin forecasts - experience shows they are pretty accurate.


 


New world order coming.

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