Remove ads from site

Gandalf The White
24 January 2016 15:22:56


 


So basically spring 👎🏻


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Out of interest how do you define the seasons if you have spring starting by the middle of February?



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


LeedsLad123
24 January 2016 15:24:36


 


Out of interest how do you define the seasons if you have spring starting by the middle of February?



Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


It's the same nonsense every year I'm afraid. February - the month most likely to produce snow and cold, and the month where the Atlantic is at its quietest - might as well be spring in the eyes of these people.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
Bertwhistle
24 January 2016 15:27:39

Astronomical spring (NH) runs from 5th Feb to 5th May with the Vernal Equinox at its centre. But meteorological spring and 'official' spring seem to be the only ones ever referred to. I'm not quite sure why 20th June is still spring in the official one, but 20th Sep counts as summer. Must be to do with crops. Only other one I could think of is night minima. Surely not?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Gandalf The White
24 January 2016 15:28:26


 


meteorologically speaking it's 2 weeks off spring... In reality spring is already here by late February in the South & South West. For you midlanders and northerners it might still be winter but even so you only have 2 weeks by then.  😋😊


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


OK, then - the problem is a mixture of expectation and definition.


For the south and lowland Midlands I split spring into 3 in terms of expectation.  March can be a winter-like month; May can be a summer-like month.  April sits in the middle in that it can produce cold snaps with the chance of snow and brief warm almost early summer-like periods for a few days.


So, I see no difference really between the last days of February and the first days of March - and nor should there be; it's just our artificial labelling of the passing of the year.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Saint Snow
24 January 2016 15:42:41


Astronomical spring (NH) runs from 5th Feb to 5th May with the Vernal Equinox at its centre.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


 


Really? I thought astronomical spring began 21st march?


(With meteorological spring starting 1st March)



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
LeedsLad123
24 January 2016 15:46:59


 


 


Really? I thought astronomical spring began 21st march?


(With meteorological spring starting 1st March)


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I think that's the same definition that says autumn begins on 5 August.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
picturesareme
24 January 2016 15:48:30


 


OK, then - the problem is a mixture of expectation and definition.


For the south and lowland Midlands I split spring into 3 in terms of expectation.  March can be a winter-like month; May can be a summer-like month.  April sits in the middle in that it can produce cold snaps with the chance of snow and brief warm almost early summer-like periods for a few days.


So, I see no difference really between the last days of February and the first days of March - and nor should there be; it's just our artificial labelling of the passing of the year.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


which is what I said when I said it was basically spring. 


 

Bertwhistle
24 January 2016 15:58:34


 


 


Really? I thought astronomical spring began 21st march?


(With meteorological spring starting 1st March)


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Astronomical spring is entirely to do with the height of the sun. Midsummer is therefore the solstice as around 21st June. Half a season either way takes you to around the 5th May (start of summer) and 5th August (end of summer- I know, depressing thought, isn't it?) Similarly spring runs from 5th Feb to 5th May- ish.


In a sense, since the seasons are defined by Earth's orbit around the sun, the astronomical calendar is the truest and the others are really just creations that relate to human lifestyles and weather. Weather is a consequence of the seasons, not a defining factor, of course.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Gandalf The White
24 January 2016 16:01:12


 


which is what I said when I said it was basically spring. 


 


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Not really - I was saying that early spring can be like winter.....


Move on, semantics isn't going to change what happens.



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
24 January 2016 16:04:53


 


Astronomical spring is entirely to do with the height of the sun. Midsummer is therefore the solstice as around 21st June. Half a season either way takes you to around the 5th May (start of summer) and 5th August (end of summer- I know, depressing thought, isn't it?) Similarly spring runs from 5th Feb to 5th May- ish.


In a sense, since the seasons are defined by Earth's orbit around the sun, the astronomical calendar is the truest and the others are really just creations that relate to human lifestyles and weather. Weather is a consequence of the seasons, not a defining factor, of course.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


What you say is perfectly true.  The missing variable is the time lag involved in the oceans, and to a much lesser extent, land masses,  warming up and cooling down, which is why we offset our seasons.  But I suspect you and everyone else knows this!



 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Essan
24 January 2016 16:08:46


 


Astronomical spring is entirely to do with the height of the sun. Midsummer is therefore the solstice as around 21st June. Half a season either way takes you to around the 5th May (start of summer) and 5th August (end of summer- I know, depressing thought, isn't it?) Similarly spring runs from 5th Feb to 5th May- ish.


In a sense, since the seasons are defined by Earth's orbit around the sun, the astronomical calendar is the truest and the others are really just creations that relate to human lifestyles and weather. Weather is a consequence of the seasons, not a defining factor, of course.


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 





Astronomical spring runs from the equinox to the solstice

Usually 21st March to 21st June (+/- 1 day)

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/learn-about-the-weather/how-weather-works/when-does-spring-start


I have never heard your defintion before, and whilst we are all entitled to our opinions, we shouldnt mislead.


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
LeedsLad123
24 January 2016 16:09:53


 


What you say is perfectly true.  The missing variable is the time lag involved in the oceans, and to a much lesser extent, land masses,  warming up and cooling down, which is why we offset our seasons.  But I suspect you and everyone else knows this!



 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Quite. The last week of July and first week of August is the warmest period of the year on average - and the UK's hottest day occurred on the 10th of August. You're not going to get many people thinking August is autumn, that's for sure - even a cold August would make for a warm June. 


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
Saint Snow
24 January 2016 16:32:06






Astronomical spring runs from the equinox to the solstice

Usually 21st March to 21st June (+/- 1 day)

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/learn-about-the-weather/how-weather-works/when-does-spring-start


I have never heard your defintion before, and whilst we are all entitled to our opinions, we shouldnt mislead.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


 


Far be it for me to agree with you but... I agree with you


 




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
LeedsLad123
24 January 2016 16:36:40


 


Think of the seasons at the poles. Would you agree that the summer half-year runs from March 21 (ish) to Sep 20 (ish). This is when the N. Pole has the sun above the horizon. So when would the mid point of summer be? June 21. From there, extrapolate both ways and you have my reasoning.


The MetO is a respected, established body but it is not some form of blasphemy to contradict something they've published.


Until last summer, the MetO posted a UK UV range as 1-7. Their links reported that '7 is exceptional, 8 is rare' and that only Camborne recorded UV8 when the conditions were right. At that time there were frequent forecasts of UV 8 in several places in the UK. After some discussions by E mail (I have kept these) you will now see the UV range for the UK is published as 1-8.


The MetO are constantly reviewing, and if necessary refining their definitions as we would hope from a scientific community. This one is up for grabs, if someone's got the time to pursue it. Their own definition on the link you posted refers to astronomical seasons being dependent on Earth's orbit, just as I said. Again, think of the summer half of the year.


I am challenging an established scientific community viewpoint, but I've done it without recourse to personal or offensive means, so I would appreciate it if you were able to counter in the same manner. I am not trying to mislead. I am trying to provoke thought.


 


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


None of what you're saying is relevant. People base seasons on weather first and foremost. You are not provoking thought because the conventional definitions are not going to change - and I don't understand why you would want them to. August is summer, May is spring -:just leave it at that.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
picturesareme
24 January 2016 17:20:02

Parameters aside spring should be defined when the weather begins to warm, the sun's energy becomes noticeable, the tree's & plants spring to life, and the life of nature returns. Sticking a blanket date on such a thing is useless.

For example...

Come early March summer heat will have already arrived in the south of Spain, but in Lapland it will still a frozen snowy wasteland.

Going on gandalfs theory you could say that summer is closer to 4 months long in the far south of the UK but less then 2 months in the far north of the UK.... Down here it can be summer from mid May until Mid September whereas in the north of Scotland in often won't get going until mid June and often ends by early August.

Bertwhistle
24 January 2016 17:22:45


Parameters aside spring should be defined when the weather begins to warm, the sun's energy becomes noticeable, the tree's & plants spring to life, and the life of nature returns. Sticking a blanket date on such a thing is useless.

For example...

Come early March summer heat will have already arrived in the south of Spain, but in Lapland it will still a frozen snowy wasteland.

Going on gandalfs theory you could say that summer is closer to 4 months long in the far south of the UK but less then 2 months in the far north of the UK.... Down here it can be summer from mid May until Mid September whereas in the north of Scotland in often won't get going until mid June and often ends by early August.


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Yes and as I understand it the children go back to school in Scotland some time in August, instead of the start of September in England. I think they break up for hols earlier, too.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
tallyho_83
25 January 2016 00:56:59
So off topic - haha and talking of spring - there were daffodils now some 6 - 7 " above flower beds in our parents back garden and with temperatures around 13-14c this afternoon in a light breeze actually felt very spring like.
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


nsrobins
25 January 2016 08:22:01


Astronomical spring (NH) runs from 5th Feb to 5th May with the Vernal Equinox at its centre

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


Incorrect. I'm not quite sure what your agenda is, and it's probably not worth spending too much time debating this, but just to clarify:


Astronomical Spring: From the Spring Equinox to the Solstice (approx 22nd March to 21st June)


Meteorological Spring: March to May. Always has been, for the purposes of accurate data collection and archive


Custom Spring: Whatever you want it to be for wherever you are in the UK and not to be confused with either of the above which are fact and not subject to perceptive interpretation.


 


Hope that makes things a little less confusing for you.


 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
KevBrads1
25 January 2016 08:55:08

Taipei, Taiwan have reported falling snow, Hong Kong has recorded its coldest temperature for decades. 


https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/01/24/intense-cold-surge-hk-hit-by-coldest-temperatures-in-nearly-60-years/


 


 


 


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Russwirral
25 January 2016 10:09:10

crazy cold spell in Asia


 


3*c in Hong kong, Frost up on the mountains - looks like freezing fog to me, as everyone is coated in ice


 


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35397763


 


Crazy.


 


Probably explains why the UK and western europe is going mild.  US is cold, Asia cold... somewhere has to go mild.


tallyho_83
25 January 2016 10:23:31


crazy cold spell in Asia


 


3*c in Hong kong, Frost up on the mountains - looks like freezing fog to me, as everyone is coated in ice


 


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35397763


 


Crazy.


 


Probably explains why the UK and western europe is going mild.  US is cold, Asia cold... somewhere has to go mild.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Wakes up here in South England some 51'N to temperature of 14.5c - I guess there is always HK to go to for some cold frosty weather.


 


BBC monthly outlook:


Don't agree with the 'exceptionally cold' - not for here anyway.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2635167#outlook


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


nsrobins
25 January 2016 11:06:21

So we have a potential disruptive storm incoming with rainfall impacts likely from the remnants of Snowstorm Jonas.


Now here is the problem and illustrates why the decision to name stroms is frankly ridiculous. Should the storm require a name under the guidleines of expected impact, it will be storm HENRY. But it already has a name. 'Oh dear' say the UK Metoffice, we didn't think of that!


So what are we to expect? 'Storm Henry (formally known as Jonas) expected soon'. Or perhaps we should adopt a hybrid system and call it Storm Honas or even Jenry.


Argument over IMO - drop the naming of storms before we becomes a laughing stock.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Solar Cycles
25 January 2016 11:16:14


So we have a potential disruptive storm incoming with rainfall impacts likely from the remnants of Snowstorm Jonas.


Now here is the problem and illustrates why the decision to name stroms is frankly ridiculous. Should the storm require a name under the guidleines of expected impact, it will be storm HENRY. But it already has a name. 'Oh dear' say the UK Metoffice, we didn't think of that!


So what are we to expect? 'Storm Henry (formally known as Jonas) expected soon'. Or perhaps we should adopt a hybrid system and call it Storm Honas or even Jenry.


Argument over IMO - drop the naming of storms before we becomes a laughing stock.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Lol, it's been the highlight of what's been a truly uninspiring winter.😜

Gavin D
25 January 2016 11:26:04
BBC monthly outlook

Monday 25 January—Sunday 31 January
The potential for disruptive rainfall totals.

We start off the week on a relative mild and breezy note. Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and western parts of England will see increasing amounts of cloud along with outbreaks of rain spreading from the west. The rest of England will remain largely dry with some bright and sunny spells during the day. The rain will clear eastwards through the evening and many of us will start off Tuesday on a briefly dry and chilly note with light winds.

It will soon turn windy on Tuesday morning and another pulse of rain will spread into northern and western areas through the day. The low pressure system bringing this rainfall originated in the US. It was called 'Jonas' by the Weather Channel and brought record breaking snowfall there. Although there is no chance of snow with this weather system for the UK, some potentially disruptive rainfall totals are possible as well as the risk of gales and severe gales. At the time of writing western parts of Britain look most likely to get the highest rainfall totals with areas further east escaping the heaviest of the rain. Given the sensitivities of some western parts of Britain due to exceptional totals before Christmas, careful monitoring of the situation is required. The rainfall could continue in western areas during the early hours of Wednesday morning.

The weather system will eventually move away eastwards during Wednesday, opening the door to a briefly chillier interlude with some wintry showers likely across north-western parts of Britain. A cool and quieter weather day is expected on Thursday although northernmost Scotland will see windier conditions as well as some wintry showers. Further mild, wet and windy spells will return through Friday and onto next weekend with some very brief chillier interludes. Overall we can categorise the weather as mild for the bulk of the week with a cautious reminder of the potential for some disruptive rainfall amounts midweek.

Monday 1 February—Sunday 7 February
Flip-flopping weather patterns

We expect the last month of meteorological winter to start off on a mild note. The first week in February is expected to be dominated by a changeable weather pattern. What does a changeable weather pattern mean for the UK at this time of year? We are expecting low pressure systems to pass mainly to the northwest of the UK. This will bring mild west or south-westerly winds with wet and at times windy weather. These spells of rain will likely quickly push through, with the main focus of the rain to be across the north and west of the UK.

Interspersed between the rain bands we are expecting to see our winds shift briefly in direction to a north or north-westerly direction. Where this happens by day it will bring mainly dry weather and when this shift in wind direction happens by night, it will bring a frost to many areas. As each day passes a different weather type will affect the UK but overall we are expecting the week on average to be mild with most of the rain affecting north and north-western parts of the UK, while the southeast of the UK is expected to see the driest of the weather.

Monday 8 February—Sunday 28 February
Something colder on the cards?

When we get to this range of forecasting, we start to look at general trends and patterns that are emerging from the various computer models. At this stage these models are indicating a greater risk of something colder emerging. This usually means that the wind direction will come more frequently from a northerly direction bringing cold air further south. The transition in weather from a relatively milder pattern to something colder will be a tricky one and is unlikely to set in suddenly; the change is likely to happen over a number of days.

However, it is worth mentioning that the colder pattern that is emerging is associated with high pressure across northwestern parts of Europe. This usually means that weather fronts that have the potential to bring snow, are kept away from the UK. So the likelihood of a snowfall event at this stage is low. Watch this space to see how this signal is shaping up next week.

Next week

Watch this space to see how the cold weather signal is shaping up next week and to see how the record breaking winter storm across the US affected the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2635167#outlook 
LeedsLad123
25 January 2016 11:28:52


So we have a potential disruptive storm incoming with rainfall impacts likely from the remnants of Snowstorm Jonas.


Now here is the problem and illustrates why the decision to name stroms is frankly ridiculous. Should the storm require a name under the guidleines of expected impact, it will be storm HENRY. But it already has a name. 'Oh dear' say the UK Metoffice, we didn't think of that!


So what are we to expect? 'Storm Henry (formally known as Jonas) expected soon'. Or perhaps we should adopt a hybrid system and call it Storm Honas or even Jenry.


Argument over IMO - drop the naming of storms before we becomes a laughing stock.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Doesn't matter - as long as it raises awareness for incoming disruptive weather then you could call it Storm Knickerbocker for all anyone cares.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.

Remove ads from site

Ads