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Fargo
22 February 2016 10:23:02


 


It is the old M4 corridor issue - marginal events are often the best for the West Midlands and Wales, even though south of the M4 might get nothing better than cold rain unfortunately. I have seen our deepest snowfalls here under such conditions - but being marginal, it is unfortunately rare - all it takes is 100 miles one way or the other and we miss it.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Indeed, a recent comparable being March 12 2004 - 6-8+ inches of snow for a large swathe of South Wales and the West Midlands >200m asl. Some of the highest snowfall rates I have ever seen and the fastest I have ever seen lying snow of that depth melt! We would've had significantly more lying if it wasn't for rate of melt and compaction!


North Herefordshire 180m asl
tallyho_83
22 February 2016 10:49:08

Looks like the low pressure system may well now track in towards the SW:



Cold but not cold enough:



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
22 February 2016 11:07:18

Bookmark this as a nationwide snow event (except coastal areas) because this chart will not last:


 



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


mildmildwest
22 February 2016 11:19:39

This morning's GFS certainly an upgrade for snowfall potential here in the south, with another bout of cold air early next week and potential widespread snowfall mid next week. We shall see.

Brian Gaze
22 February 2016 11:52:06

6z GEFS update looks pretty cold into March



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Quantum
22 February 2016 12:03:02

God this is frustrating.


Back in January we had bitterly cold air next door but insufficient synoptics


Now we have insufficiently cold air next door but perfect synoptics.


Goddam this, can we not get a single ice day or more than widespread snow event per cold spell; you'd think the EU is regulating against them or something (it wouldn't surprise me).  


 


/rant 


Seriously though, this is not anywhere near as good as it looks. A good lake effect snow event (snow showers) requires the following:


0) Deep cold air in place (zeroth because this is just obvious)


1) High thermal gradient 


2) Low directional sheer


3) Low speed sheer


4) Long fetch (and obviously it needs to be blowing from the sea in the first place)


5) Cold air advected (note this is independent from 0, you can get WAA while it is cold)


6) Moderate wind speeds (not too high or low - level is irrelevant due to the restriction imposed by 3)


7) Relatively low pressure


 


So lets examine this. I'm going to rate on the following scale:


Excellent - conditions very favorable


Good - conditions favorable


Marginal - conditions just favorable


Poor - conditions unfavourable


Terrible - conditions very unfavourable


 


 


 


0)Excellent  outside the boundry layer itself we are not even marginal - its easily cold enough.


1)Marginal/Good 850hpa-surface is broadly 13C-16C. This is acceptable, 13C is getting to the point where it is marginal, 16C is quite good. Overall acceptabl


2)Terrible-Good Highly variable. Frontal activity moving in after midweek causing cross winds. 


3)Terrible-Good As above, highly variable. 


4) Good/Excellent most of the time the wind is blowing from the north or north east with an effectively infinite fetch. Marginal at times in the south east as the wind turns SErly


5) Marginal/Good most of the time there is weak CAA with some strong CAA at first, some weak WAA possible midweek. Generally good though and occasionally excellent.


6) Terrible-Excellent ridiculously variable; sometimes the air will be virtually static (and therefore terrible) and at othertimes especially later it may even be slightly too high. 


7) Marginal/Good/Excellent most of the time it will be good or excellent but occasionally in the west the pressure will rise above 1020mb which is getting marginal.


 


So my overall assesment is very mixed. Please keep in mind that cold air and a roughly NE wind is NOT the only criterion for lake effect snow. Honestly I think it could be alot better than it is; in the south especially it will be so marginal I think we can rule out impressive streamers. Hope for frontal snow (Harry rather than Sally), its far more low maintance and really only cares about how cold it is (and its easily cold enough). 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Sinky1970
22 February 2016 12:14:59

If anyone is going to Spain this coming weekend, i think that's the place to be if you want to see snow, as it looks like they will get a right old dumping, while we get just a few dribs & drabs. (Based on this morning's GFS run of course).

JACKO4EVER
22 February 2016 12:24:23
Cool and mostly dry, some sharp overnight frosts and some very useable weather😀
It will do for me.
idj20
22 February 2016 12:34:26

I think I may have to go for the dry and cold theme as being the form horse for this weekend as far as this neck of the woods is concerned. The latest ensemble does show nicely the fairly cold uppers but precipitation rates seems to be very sparse. May have to rely on a surprise Kent Clipper to provide the goods in terms of wintry weather, but at this point it's more a "you never know" thing rather than being forecast.

I've noticed posts appearing in triplicate in TWO lately, server acting up or Mr Gaze used to work for the civil services?  Also it takes ages for posts to be sent off (up to 30 seconds when it used to be quite instant).


Folkestone Harbour. 
tallyho_83
22 February 2016 12:50:44


If anyone is going to Spain this coming weekend, i think that's the place to be if you want to see snow, as it looks like they will get a right old dumping, while we get just a few dribs & drabs. (Based on this morning's GFS run of course).


Originally Posted by: Sinky1970 


My parents are going to Marrakesh, Morocco this weekend and the temperature there is 13c to +15c this weekend with heavy rain in the forecast. This would mean snow for the Atlas mountains. Well considering it was 16c here and dry but overcast yesterday and dry this weekend albeit colder they wouldn't be happy to go on Holiday to be greeted with rain.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gooner
22 February 2016 13:28:12

From IF


Met Office assessment remains consistent:


- A protracted period of below average temperatures (ie most extended period of such seen for some time) remains key message from longer range output


- Timing of any return to mobility after end of this week remains very uncertain


- However, persistence of any blocking becomes much less pronounced through early March as mean NW flow becomes more dominant in extended range products


- GloSea5 takes us through mid-March on a wetter than average, cyclonic-dominated signal. EC Monthly does likewise, but retaining colder than average conditions


- Further transient blocked periods are possible


- Self-evidently, 'below average' for late Feb-early March must be interpreted relative to normal seasonal trend: so, that does NOT equate to what it would mean in e.g. mid-Jan!! 



  • Finally, EC Monthly updates again tonight and the UKMO Seasonal Team will shortly update probabilistic expectations for March-April-May.


EDIT


As mentioned earlier today, for those interested, this is now available on UKMO website. It includes discussion re the anticipated SSW early in March (signposted for some time in GloSea5 and now appearing in other models) and potential subsequent impacts; plus El Niño and other factors.


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


kmoorman
22 February 2016 15:40:19


 


My parents are going to Marrakesh, Morocco this weekend and the temperature there is 13c to +15c this weekend with heavy rain in the forecast. This would mean snow for the Atlas mountains. Well considering it was 16c here and dry but overcast yesterday and dry this weekend albeit colder they wouldn't be happy to go on Holiday to be greeted with rain.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


Got home yesterday from a week's holiday in Lanzarote.  We experienced quite unusual weather for the Canaries whilst there, with initially a strong and chilly Nly wind (up to 40mph) and temps about 18C and then (Thurs / Friday) heavy rain, and strong winds (50mph) and temps no higher than 12C.   It snowed on both Gran Canaria and Tenerife both Thursday and Friday. 


Suffice the say the family were not happy with our winter sun holiday.


Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
Follow me on Twitter @kmoorman1968
nsrobins
22 February 2016 16:23:46
If I'm being honest it's all a bit underwhelming. I'm afraid at the end of Feb 850s of -7 or -8 just don't cut the mustard if it's snow you're after. Obviously it's much better than what we've had recently if you like it chilly, but a classic late winter blast with convective snow trains it most certainly is not (at the moment anyway - things could change but for the weekend coming that change would have to be pretty swift lol).
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
doctormog
22 February 2016 16:31:28
It's interesting to see this area under a snowfall warning from 6pm when there is little sign of snowfall in the coming hour or two.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn362.gif 

Hopefully later tonight if the charts are accurate, when the wind swings round to more of a northerly direction. It is nice to see the sub -10°C t850hPa air in northern parts at only 36 hrs out. A rather chilly week for the time of year, especially in some northern parts. As for snow, I will tell you in a day or two if there has been any! If not there are chances elsewhere later in the week when Atlantic fronts come into play. Until then the late winter's sunshine is rather nice.
Ally Pally Snowman
22 February 2016 16:44:50

Very good ukmo. We'll be unlucky if we don't see at least some snow from this set up.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm961.html


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1201.html


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
22 February 2016 16:50:57


Very good ukmo. We'll be unlucky if we don't see at least some snow from this set up.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm961.html


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1201.html


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


It all looks rather marginal unless cold air is already established by that point.


Charmhills
22 February 2016 16:53:34

GFS 12z has lots of diving lows with a snow risk remaining and cold at times to.


To far away to put detail on these things though.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Ally Pally Snowman
22 February 2016 16:54:35


 


It all looks rather marginal unless cold air is already established by that point.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Its definitely marginal but at night, inland with a bit of height it could be a decent set up.


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
JACKO4EVER
22 February 2016 16:57:05


Very good ukmo. We'll be unlucky if we don't see at least some snow from this set up.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm961.html


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1201.html


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


that first chart has miserable and wet written all over it, the second is marginal to say the least? If it were the beginning of January with already entrenched cold it would be game on, but sadly it's all a bit too late now. 


Still, should be some bright sunshine and sharp frosts to enjoy in the next few days 

Gusty
22 February 2016 16:58:08

It is a time to feel optimistic based on the charts we are seeing. However, for the south at least it feels very much a repeat performance of what we saw last weekend whereby a cold easterly flow established with cold rain and hill sleet followed by a NE'ly that was not cold enough.


Time for change of course but not feeling it at the moment.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



nsrobins
22 February 2016 17:02:00

 



 


 


Its definitely marginal but at night, inland with a bit of height, above 53deg N, between 4 and 5am, wind just east of north, Radio 4 tuned in and all street-light watchers drinking Rose and wearing tutus - it could be a decent set up.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


I've corrected your conditions for you :)


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Maunder Minimum
22 February 2016 17:03:11


 


It all looks rather marginal unless cold air is already established by that point.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Looks promising for hillier areas of the West Midlands and mid-Wales.


These things can be so marginal. A few years back, it was raining where my daughter lives 20 miles to the east, whilst we had heavy snow because we are about 200 metres higher in a more hilly area.


New world order coming.
Ally Pally Snowman
22 February 2016 17:06:09


 


 


I've corrected your conditions for you :)


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


LOL.


maybe I'm being too optimistic. We'll soon find out.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
JACKO4EVER
22 February 2016 17:11:57


 


 


LOL.


maybe I'm being too optimistic. We'll soon find out.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Keep it up Ally- it's all good fun 😀

nsrobins
22 February 2016 17:15:48


 


Keep it up Ally- it's all good fun 😀


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Most definitely. I am not intending to supress a bit of optimism, just suggesting that expectations should be kept realistic.
Still, we have another possibly stronger strat warming and maybe SSW level event starting later this week so maybe we should look to mid-March for heavy snow


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO

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