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Nordic Snowman
23 February 2018 17:01:22

The GFS Op once again (4th on a row?) goes for a much quicker breakdown from the South... on each of the previous occasions, it's been very much on the mild side of the ensemble. I wonder if that's still the case or do we have a new trend?

Originally Posted by: kmoorman 


No need to worry IMO.


I think GFS tends to overdo in these situations and I wouldn't be that surprised if in a few days from now, we were all egging for the Low to push further N as I suspect that it will run further S than shown here.


Bjorli, Norway

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Rob K
23 February 2018 17:03:36


 


No need to worry IMO.


I think GFS tends to overdo in these situations and I wouldn't be that surprised if in a few days from now, we were all egging for the Low to push further N as I suspect that it will run further S than shown here.


Originally Posted by: Nordic Snowman 


Yes I seem to remember earlier this winter (or was it last winter?) there was a low progged to attack from the south and bring snow to the south coast. I think it ended up making landfall somewhere around Bordeaux. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gooner
23 February 2018 17:03:37


 


The GFS led the way with the original easterly idea so I'd probably back GFS over the others, albeit I think it may be overdoing the strength of the low pressure attack. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


It didnt actually Rob , the Met did with the first forecast nearly 3 weeks ago, they were clearly onto something .


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
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Gavin D
23 February 2018 17:04:41

GEM 12z slowly recovers the 850's through next weekend and into the following week - remaining chilly but temps a wee bit higher eventually


Rob K
23 February 2018 17:05:23


 


It didnt actually Rob , the Met did with the first forecast nearly 3 weeks ago, they were clearly onto something .


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I meant in terms of models. It wasn't totally consistent of course but it was keener on the idea than the others IIRC. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Joe Bloggs
23 February 2018 17:05:33


 


The 12Z METO is the worst for several runs IMO. It's all collapsing by 144 hours towards a west-based NAO with a gaping hole open to the south. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Disagree, it's better than the 00z, and exceptionally cold/snowy for many.


Are you a bit of a perfectionist or something Rob?  


You won't get much better than this, come on man!




Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

SJV
23 February 2018 17:06:15
So we have a bit of a disagreement wrt the t144 UKMO chart. On the face of it it looks great, but perhaps not so great for long-term cold if Rob has his facts right.

Thoughts?
SJV
23 February 2018 17:08:11
ps, GFS control is as bitter as it comes!
Joe Bloggs
23 February 2018 17:08:32

So we have a bit of a disagreement wrt the t144 UKMO chart. On the face of it it looks great, but perhaps not so great for long-term cold if Rob has his facts right.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by: SJV 


In my view after T+144 the Iberian Low will continue its journey ENE giving us continued cold weather (NE'lies) with a continued snow risk. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Rob K
23 February 2018 17:11:12

ps, GFS control is as bitter as it comes!

Originally Posted by: SJV 


Control runs the low pressure up the east coast and keeps us in bitter 850s with snow for all...


The mean looks colder than 6Z by T192. Still -8C in the south on average. Looks like the op is on the mild side again. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
SJV
23 February 2018 17:11:26
GEM 12z looks like a snowmaker by next weekend.
David M Porter
23 February 2018 17:11:51


 


It didnt actually Rob , the Met did with the first forecast nearly 3 weeks ago, they were clearly onto something .


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


That's correct Marcus. I can clearly recall one MetO 16-30 day update either at the start of this month or maybe the end of January talking about the possibility of much colder weather coming along at some point towards the end of Feb/start of March. There were some hints in deep FI in a few GFS op runs around that time that someting was possibly afoot, although that far ahead there was no real consistency to these hints.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Rob K
23 February 2018 17:12:47

So we have a bit of a disagreement wrt the t144 UKMO chart. On the face of it it looks great, but perhaps not so great for long-term cold if Rob has his facts right.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by: SJV 


The chart at that point is obviously bitter and great. But my worry is that the core of the heights is heading too far away from us into Greenland. In 2010 that happened and that's why for many in the south it was a soggy affair that didn't really reflect the subzero monthly CET. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
tallyho_83
23 February 2018 17:13:03


 


However by that point almost the whole country has a substantial snow cover, ao it might be a price worth paying. Of course this far out it's pointless to obsess too much about the detail. The low might pass further to the south, move more quickly north, or even never appear at all.


Originally Posted by: jhall 


That map - wow! Brian quite a breakdown but at least we will all see snow . I am a little skeptical though about that because as mentioned before the OP run has mostly been the one that's really keen to break this easterly down compared to many other. What's also strange is that the mildest of air will arrive in the south east Thursday night into Friday but it will remain colder for the South west which is rare but mostly due to the fact the SW would be on the colder side of the low pressure system as it moves eastwards and the milder air never really reaches Scotland.


They talk about the snow being powdery and dry but by Thursday this looks like hours of heavy wet snow Thursday night followed by rain all occurring during Thursday night so when we wake Friday morning it will be more of a slushy affair. 


I am being very pedantic but if this one came off then we could be looking at heavy snow turning to heavy rain esp the south east. - To be frank I don;t think the models have quite got a grips with the precipitation charts yet. - But looks like it could be a wet morning rather than a white one for the SE if this came about.


The low pressure could take a different track so who knows!?


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


 


I just can't see it being so mild so soon in Kent 9am on Friday temps of +7c. - I think the GFS has gone off on one!?



Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Magical Moon
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SJV
23 February 2018 17:13:27
Think Neil said how kinky the GFS 12z was mid next week. GEM also looking kinky then as we see numerous disturbances running east to west.
Nordic Snowman
23 February 2018 17:14:10


 


Yes I seem to remember earlier this winter (or was it last winter?) there was a low progged to attack from the south and bring snow to the south coast. I think it ended up making landfall somewhere around Bordeaux. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Indeed Rob.


PS: I think the METO T144 is great! The High does retrogress towards Greenland but it will allow a renewed injection of colder air from the NE. I see no worries.


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
SJV
23 February 2018 17:15:06


 


That map - wow! Brian quite a breakdown but at least we will all see snow . I am a little skeptical though about that because as mentioned before the OP run has mostly been the one that's really keen to break this easterly down compared to many other. What's also strange is that the mildest of air will arrive in the south east Thursday night into Friday but it will remain colder for the South west which is rare but mostly due to the fact the SW would be on the colder side of the low pressure system as it moves eastwards and the milder air never really reaches Scotland.


They talk about the snow being powdery and dry but by Thursday this looks like hours of heavy wet snow Thursday night followed by rain all occurring during Thursday night so when we wake Friday morning it will be more of a slushy affair. 


I am being very pedantic but if this one came off then we could be looking at heavy snow turning to heavy rain esp the south east. - To be frank I don;t think the models have quite got a grips with the precipitation charts yet. - But looks like it could be a wet morning rather than a white one for the SE if this came about.


The low pressure could take a different track so who knows!?


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Low pressure likely to take a more southerly track. 12z op one of the milder options suggesting this is the case. Worth keeping an eye on definitely but as many have said take that 'breakdown' with a pinch of salt.

Ally Pally Snowman
23 February 2018 17:15:09

ps, GFS control is as bitter as it comes!

Originally Posted by: SJV 


 


Yes the Control is mentally cold and snowy no breakdown at day 7 here.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=192&code=0&mode=1&carte=0


 


Edit break down for the south day 10 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Stormchaser
23 February 2018 17:15:39

The deep cold to the NE on the +144 UKMO is capable of acting like a blocking high of its own.


It even generates its own higher SLP because it's so dense - hence a lot of models now showing a narrow surface ridge aligned with it by Fri-Sat.


It adds a fascinating twist to things just when we'd otherwise be at the mercy of an evolving west-based negative NAO setup - although I'm not sure given stratospheric signals that the blocking high will actually go so far away. 



The elongated shape of the LP to the south on the +144 UKMO suggests it is continuing to follow the (very!) southerly-tracking jet into the Med. more than break away N in the style of GFS.


I would actually expect, going forward, to see the LP continue across to Italy or thereabouts, with deep cold still moving across the UK from the E or NE albeit not at such brisk pace as earlier in the week, leaving us wondering if the polar vortex will pay us a visit from Siberia way before the remnant cold pooling had even had time to clear away.


That last part depends on how the second bout of anomalies propagating down from the stratosphere happen to orientate, so not worth getting too interested in at this time - especially given what we've got to deal with next week!


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Joe Bloggs
23 February 2018 17:16:41

12z GEFS means. You can see why the pro's are now referring to the potential for a historic cold spell.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSAVGEU12_96_2.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSAVGEU12_120_2.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSAVGEU12_144_2.png


Direct hit. Sensational. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

NickR
23 February 2018 17:16:51
The control gives insane amounts of snow to the East especially.
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Whether Idle
23 February 2018 17:18:04

ICON and GEM disrupt the model consensus.  FI at t72.  Very cold or cold.  Snow, but where is up for grabs.


Be careful to choose the right model to get snow for your location, or record cold.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
tallyho_83
23 February 2018 17:18:21


 


Low pressure likely to take a more southerly track. 12z op one of the milder options suggesting this is the case. Worth keeping an eye on definitely but as many have said take that 'breakdown' with a pinch of salt.


Originally Posted by: SJV 


Well if we have "English channel effect snow" then it will turn milder for sure for a time. The snow would be heavy south of the M4 (makes a change). It looks like the snow will start falling Thursday evening and be dry and powdery and then become heavy wet snow and turn sleety Friday this is my guess anyway but at least it will turn colder behind.


However, if the low takes a more southerly track then at least we stay in the cold easterly and will enjoy powdery snow flurries and showers for longer!?


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


David M Porter
23 February 2018 17:18:41


 


Indeed Rob.


PS: I think the METO T144 is great! The High does retrogress towards Greenland but it will allow a renewed injection of colder air from the NE. I see no worries.


Originally Posted by: Nordic Snowman 


Looks good to me too.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Rob K
23 February 2018 17:19:04
Majority of the runs on GEFS seem to maintain the cold out to day 10 at least. Mean just reaches -5C in London by 240hrs.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
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