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Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
Sunday, November 17, 2013 10:54:15 AM

Think its as good a time as any to start this one rolling. A rather dramatic feature will move south through wednesday. Most of the precipatation at this stage looks like rain, however it will be an especially marginal situation. Evaporational cooling will really come into play here, and I think there will be some spots that see quite a bit of 'suprise snow', although at this stage I think its more speculation, where they would be.


A few tools that will be invaluable in coming days:


The high res NASA GEOS model, useful for short range forecasting out to 120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geose_cartes.php


The NAE model, invaluable for precice forecasting for a short period:


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=nae&MODELLTYP=1&VAR=modtemps&HH=66&BASE=-&WMO=u3005&ZOOM=0


The GFS skew T: Generalised version of the 850s/dew points e.c.t only limited by the accuracy of the GFS itself.


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=modtemps&MODELLTYP=4&VAR=pslv&HH=48&BASE=-&WMO=u3005&ZOOM=0


Finally partial thicknesses, for a happy balance between 850s and skew charts:


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=gfs&MODELLTYP=1&BASE=-&VAR=th85&HH=48&ARCHIV=0&ZOOM=0&PERIOD=&WMO=u3005


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:12:24 AM


Think its as good a time as any to start this one rolling. A rather dramatic feature will move south through wednesday. Most of the precipatation at this stage looks like rain, however it will be an especially marginal situation. Evaporational cooling will really come into play here, and I think there will be some spots that see quite a bit of 'suprise snow', although at this stage I think its more speculation, where they would be.


A few tools that will be invaluable in coming days:


The high res NASA GEOS model, useful for short range forecasting out to 120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geose_cartes.php


The NAE model, invaluable for precice forecasting for a short period:


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=nae&MODELLTYP=1&VAR=modtemps&HH=66&BASE=-&WMO=u3005&ZOOM=0


The GFS skew T: Generalised version of the 850s/dew points e.c.t only limited by the accuracy of the GFS itself.


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=modtemps&MODELLTYP=4&VAR=pslv&HH=48&BASE=-&WMO=u3005&ZOOM=0


Finally partial thicknesses, for a happy balance between 850s and skew charts:


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=gfs&MODELLTYP=1&BASE=-&VAR=th85&HH=48&ARCHIV=0&ZOOM=0&PERIOD=&WMO=u3005


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Wasn't the NAE model poor this summer when forecasting ppn?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Matty H
Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:15:47 AM
Abysmal, Marcus, and was last winter for snow on many occasions. Still, it's probably the best tool we have as a single precipitation model.

Personally I think the snow potential is extremely limited, and that potential has decreased further over the last 48 hours or so. Maybe a surprise for some this week if things fall into place.
Essan
Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:20:44 AM

I think snow is quite likely across much of the country this week ......


 


 


 


 


 


....... but it'll have turned to rain long before it reaches the ground in most places


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Coxy410
Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:30:55 AM

Think its as good a time as any to start this one rolling. A rather dramatic feature will move south through wednesday. Most of the precipatation at this stage looks like rain, however it will be an especially marginal situation. Evaporational cooling will really come into play here, and I think there will be some spots that see quite a bit of 'suprise snow', although at this stage I think its more speculation, where they would be.


A few tools that will be invaluable in coming days:


The high res NASA GEOS model, useful for short range forecasting out to 120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geose_cartes.php


The NAE model, invaluable for precice forecasting for a short period:


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=nae&MODELLTYP=1&VAR=modtemps&HH=66&BASE=-&WMO=u3005&ZOOM=0


The GFS skew T: Generalised version of the 850s/dew points e.c.t only limited by the accuracy of the GFS itself.


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=modtemps&MODELLTYP=4&VAR=pslv&HH=48&BASE=-&WMO=u3005&ZOOM=0


Finally partial thicknesses, for a happy balance between 850s and skew charts:


http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=euro&MODELL=gfs&MODELLTYP=1&BASE=-&VAR=th85&HH=48&ARCHIV=0&ZOOM=0&PERIOD=&WMO=u3005

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Thanks for that, i am merely an observer of this forum and this makes this simplifiers this forthcoming event. cheers

Steve


Newborough, Cambridgeshire
Gusty
Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:50:52 AM



Personally I think the snow potential is extremely limited, and that potential has decreased further over the last 48 hours or so. Maybe a surprise for some this week if things fall into place.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Agreed. 


I think the peak for widespread wintry potential was back on Friday morning when the models were progging more of a shallow low feature in generally unmodified polar air. Since then the low pressure disturbance on Wednesday is now progged to be more of a developed low pressure system with a warm sector and a fairly strong SW'ly vector ahead of it and a strong NNW'ly behind it. Not conducive to lowland snow with unfavorable uppers and marginal wet bulbs at best


Northern areas, especially with altitude are still at risk and I suppose there is still the chance of some wintry showers over the higher ground of SE Britain on Thursday/Friday if the uppers become slighly more favorable. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



ARTzeman
Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:55:19 AM

Sleet potential probably...






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
ARTzeman
Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:06:47 PM

Met Office issued Warrnings for Ice..North West on Monday.. Western side for Tuesday  ...But NOT South West..






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
doctormog
Sunday, November 17, 2013 1:02:17 PM

Met Office issued Warrnings for Ice..North West on Monday.. Western side for Tuesday  ...But NOT South West..

Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 



Not to mention up to 10cm of snow in parts of N Scotland (although probably not here!) [sn_bsmil]
Whether Idle
Sunday, November 17, 2013 4:47:36 PM


Met Office issued Warrnings for Ice..North West on Monday.. Western side for Tuesday  ...But NOT South West..


Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Not to mention up to 10cm of snow in parts of N Scotland (although probably not here!) Big smile

Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 


Yes, the north of Scotland looks like getting a pasting.  Fair to call that seasonal ooop there though


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Medlock Vale Weather
Sunday, November 17, 2013 5:04:33 PM


Met Office issued Warrnings for Ice..North West on Monday.. Western side for Tuesday  ...But NOT South West..


Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Not to mention up to 10cm of snow in parts of N Scotland (although probably not here!) Big smile

Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 


Looking alright for the ski resorts Doc. Possibly a good dumping.


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/11/17/basis12/ukuk/rart/13112006_2_1712.gif


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:02:01 PM

The skewT diagrams suggest very cold air in the south as we move towards wednesday. If that low pressure area, has a warm sector, that means it also has a warm front. And we know ana warm fronts are notourious for bringing snow at very generous uppers. Think the midlands and even the SE of england is at risk of seeing some wet snow for a time, before it turns to rain. Also, if the navgem is to be believed, there could be something a little more interesting on the back of that low as it stalls in the SW of the country. Rain for most, but I don't think exclusivly even on low ground.  


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
snow 2004
Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:15:59 PM

The very end of the BBC forecast seemed to suggest rain turning to snow then back to rain. Was hard to tell as the animation was very quickly shown in the last few seconds. Potential for a good fall of temporary snow for some?


 


Before that Tuesday morning could be interesting for some. Experience says my area could very well wake up with snow on the grass and cars with an inch or two above 300 metres. Buxton could be the place to be for snow on Tuesday.


Glossop Derbyshire, 200m asl
Essan
Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:19:43 PM



Met Office issued Warrnings for Ice..North West on Monday.. Western side for Tuesday  ...But NOT South West..


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 



Not to mention up to 10cm of snow in parts of N Scotland (although probably not here!) Big smile

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Looking alright for the ski resorts Doc. Possibly a good dumping.


Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 



They need it after the past few days!  


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
doctormog
Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:37:01 PM




Met Office issued Warrnings for Ice..North West on Monday.. Western side for Tuesday  ...But NOT South West..


Originally Posted by: Essan 



Not to mention up to 10cm of snow in parts of N Scotland (although probably not here!) Big smile

Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


Looking alright for the ski resorts Doc. Possibly a good dumping.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 



They need it after the past few days!  


Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 


Hardly surprising in November though Andy


(The best seasons for the centres IME tend to be the ones that start just before or around Christmas). ANyway it'll be nice to (hopefully) see something wintry at lower altitudes in the coming week even if it doesn't amount to much


nsrobins
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:21:40 AM

In the short term substantial snow will be limited to upland Northern UK over the next few days, in the form of showers on Tuesday and ppn from the organised system on Wednesday.
The low moving dowm from the Iceland region has origins in maritime modified polar air and with a defined warm sector with the triple point moving down the east coast I believe snow will be confined to leading edge in upland Scotland and North England and then perhaps exiting edge in same areas.
The parameters just don't look conducive enough for anything more than cold rain elsewhere and the most significant feature could well be the strong to gale winds associated with this low.

Later in the week a NE flow across the south may bring a few sleety episodes but as it stands uppers are not deep enough as yet to provide anything more than that.
All subject to change and if ECM is to be believed there may be something more in the pipeline longer term (and it has been quite persistant on this lately).


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
doctormog
Monday, November 18, 2013 5:29:22 PM
I'm happy enough with the latest TAF for Aberdeen airport...

EGPD 181703Z 1818/1918 26008KT 9999 FEW045 BECMG 1902/1905 32012KT TEMPO 1903/1913 4000 -SHSN BKN009 PROB40 TEMPO 1904/1912 32015G25KT 1000 SHSN BKN005 BECMG 1912/1915 24008KT PROB30 TEMPO 1915/1918 4000 -SHSN BKN010=

The earlier forecast mentioned rain and snow in the early hours tomorrow, the latest one above mentions only snow. With the risk of light (or between 4am and midday) moderate snow showers. It will be nice to see some falling even if nothing comes of it terms of accumulations. My main worry is that it will stay largely dry until Wednesday and then it'll rain LOL.
doctormog
Monday, November 18, 2013 7:48:39 PM
I was just going to have a glance around the TrafficScotland webcams to see if it was snowing (and it is on some of them), but I spotted this on the first image and thought the location right beside the sign was pretty cool. [sn_bsmil]

(You may need to look carefully to see it through the snow)

UserPostedImage

http://trafficscotland.org/livetrafficcameras/ 
cowman
Monday, November 18, 2013 7:54:59 PM
Nice one doc.
Coxy410
Monday, November 18, 2013 8:24:49 PM

I was just going to have a glance around the TrafficScotland webcams to see if it was snowing (and it is on some of them), but I spotted this on the first image and thought the location right beside the sign was pretty cool. [sn_bsmil]

(You may need to look carefully to see it through the snow)

UserPostedImage

http://trafficscotland.org/livetrafficcameras/ 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Thats cool, what camara was that?
Steve


Newborough, Cambridgeshire
seaside
Monday, November 18, 2013 8:25:09 PM
Just had a nice snow shower and everything is white. Winter has arrived in the Highlands.

Martin, 500 feet up in Glenmoriston, NW Highlands .
doctormog
Monday, November 18, 2013 8:29:04 PM

I was just going to have a glance around the TrafficScotland webcams to see if it was snowing (and it is on some of them), but I spotted this on the first image and thought the location right beside the sign was pretty cool. [sn_bsmil]

(You may need to look carefully to see it through the snow)

UserPostedImage

http://trafficscotland.org/livetrafficcameras/ 

Originally Posted by: Coxy410 



Thats cool, what camara was that?

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



http://trafficscotland.org/livetrafficcameras/view/?cam=83 
Whether Idle
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:12:58 PM

There is a fair chance of snow overnight Weds into Thursday as trough comes down in the cold air in the wake of the depression.  Up to 5cms on hills  in a broad band from Bath to Norwich.


See fax: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=60&carte=2000


No doubt most people are more interested in looking 240 hours ahead and are missing the potential snow event 60 hours away


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gusty
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:13:50 PM

Just had a nice snow shower and everything is white. Winter has arrived in the Highlands. Martin, 500 feet up in Glenmoriston, NW Highlands .

Originally Posted by: seaside 


 Nice one.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



LeedsLad123
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:15:02 PM


There is a fair chance of snow overnight Weds into Thursday as trough comes down in the cold air in the wake of the depression.  Up to 5cms on hills  in a broad band from Bath to Norwich.


See fax: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=60&carte=2000


No doubt most people are more interested in looking 240 hours ahead and are missing the potential snow event 60 hours away


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Good for those in Bath or Norwich, but not so good for me, hence I am not interested at all.


Whitkirk, Leeds - 85m ASL.
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