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GIBBY
Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:30:13 PM

Good summary Gibby - thanks.... One of your shortest which reflects the nature of the output currently. No comments on the 12z ECM at all says it all - extremely mild and quiet air over UK and much of Europe over end of the period.... but as the saying goes "the darkest hour is before the dawn",and I wouldn't beespecially surprised if we get something develop over the week ahead rather like the extended 12zGFSdoes.... but the weather does as the weather will. Having said that, I'm personally quite happy with a benign period of early winter weather so I can get things done without the weather getting in the way.... as long as it doesn't stay like that til March! Andrew

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

With such a slack flow in the latter stages of the ECM I would be surprised if the conditions turned out to be extremely mild, despite 500hPa values or indeed t850s. It's not really a long fetch tropical maritime source and I'd be inclined to think that conditions may be around average temperature wise.

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


I would be inclined to agree with you if such synoptics were shown in say February but at this late Autumn/early Winter stage then warm air is not far away to the South and a shortish fetch is all that is necessary to lift temperatures to very mild levels. I do concede though that it's effects would probably be lost on hill and coastal fog and clag and unlikely to bring clear bue skies. 


PS Thanks to the Guys above for continued support.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Chiltern Blizzard
Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:49:06 PM

Good summary Gibby - thanks.... One of your shortest which reflects the nature of the output currently. No comments on the 12z ECM at all says it all - extremely mild and quiet air over UK and much of Europe over end of the period.... but as the saying goes "the darkest hour is before the dawn",and I wouldn't beespecially surprised if we get something develop over the week ahead rather like the extended 12zGFSdoes.... but the weather does as the weather will. Having said that, I'm personally quite happy with a benign period of early winter weather so I can get things done without the weather getting in the way.... as long as it doesn't stay like that til March! Andrew

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

With such a slack flow in the latter stages of the ECM I would be surprised if the conditions turned out to be extremely mild, despite 500hPa values or indeed t850s. It's not really a long fetch tropical maritime source and I'd be inclined to think that conditions may be around average temperature wise.

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


You're right.... irrespective of the upper air temps, the slack flow and low solar input would actually cool things down to average-ish temperature - the chart at T216 reminded me of February 1998 making me immediately think of unseasonal warmth, though of course, the sun in February is appreciably higher.   Really mild December temps usually come with SW breeze/gale coming up across the Atlantic uninterrupted from the tropics


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
pdiddy
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:09:40 PM

seems that for cold we need the heights going North in to Greenie, so genuine question here:


what determines whether the higher heights are allowed to shift North or whether the surface high stays separate from the high over the atlantic? 


Hope this makes sense... just seems the models have a different take on what will happen with the two unconnected highs at the c.t200 hour mark?

nouska
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:13:22 PM
Looking at the later stages of the ECM and the direction of the southerly flow. the one Scottish EPS we have might be of use as a guide. Glasgow Bishopton, on the coast of the Clyde Estuary.

http://i.imgur.com/s8jSPSE.png 
Phil G
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:13:25 PM
Quite a gale along the east coast. Good job this is not a few days later when higher tides are around.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1268.png 
Quantum
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:31:57 PM

OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia). 


 


EDIT: the 18z illustrates very well what I am thinking about


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131124/18/192/npsh500.png


We have the two areas of high pressure, over alaska and the north atlantic. In the middle is a shallow greenland high. Taking this chart literally, northern blocking would happen very quickly with the north atlantic high transfering to greenland. The LP over iceland will follow the jetstram and take a path SE, which will become increasingly more southery as the pattern becomes increasingly less flat. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
picturesareme
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:42:59 PM

OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia).

EDIT: the 18z illustrates very well what I am thinking about
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131124/18/192/npsh500.png 
We have the two areas of high pressure, over alaska and the north atlantic. In the middle is a shallow greenland high. Taking this chart literally, northern blocking would happen very quickly with the north atlantic high transfering to greenland. The LP over iceland will follow the jetstram and take a path SE, which will become increasingly more southery as the pattern becomes increasingly less flat.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



I habitually checkout the weathecam and observations for tromso. This year the snows and cold came early and as of yesterday they have near half a meter on level snow... This is the deepest I've known it there for this time of year in the 3 years I've been observing.

The snows came in October and have remained with only slightl thaws. So to say Scandinavia is warmer then in should be is not entirely accurate :)

Edit: just looked at Oslo 5 day forecast and sub zero all week.,, November average is 4C and December 1C so even southern Scandinavia is colder then average at the moment.
Russwirral
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:44:05 PM

for the foreseeable it just seems like a succession of being on the cold side of a HP to being on the mild sild - to being back on the cold side - rinse repeat.


 


(when i say mild, i simply mean at 850hpa)


 


Will be interesting to see how this translates to Xmas sales.  No excuses this year - no bad weather to keep shopppers away.


Quantum
Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:55:17 PM
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131124/18/192/npsh500.png  We have the two areas of high pressure, over alaska and the north atlantic. In the middle is a shallow greenland high. Taking this chart literally, northern blocking would happen very quickly with the north atlantic high transfering to greenland. The LP over iceland will follow the jetstram and take a path SE, which will become increasingly more southery as the pattern becomes increasingly less flat.

OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I habitually checkout the weathecam and observations for tromso. This year the snows and cold came early and as of yesterday they have near half a meter on level snow... This is the deepest I've known it there for this time of year in the 3 years I've been observing. The snows came in October and have remained with only slightl thaws. So to say Scandinavia is warmer then in should be is not entirely accurate 🙂 Edit: just looked at Oslo 5 day forecast and sub zero all week.,, November average is 4C and December 1C so even southern Scandinavia is colder then average at the moment.


My appologies, it has indeed been colder than average across scandanavia.


But as you can see in this chart, most of the atlantic arctic region is significantly warmer than average still.


http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/tmp/composites/compday.9mvw9H6Dkd.gif


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
picturesareme
Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:30:00 PM
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131124/18/192/npsh500.png  We have the two areas of high pressure, over alaska and the north atlantic. In the middle is a shallow greenland high. Taking this chart literally, northern blocking would happen very quickly with the north atlantic high transfering to greenland. The LP over iceland will follow the jetstram and take a path SE, which will become increasingly more southery as the pattern becomes increasingly less flat.

OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I habitually checkout the weathecam and observations for tromso. This year the snows and cold came early and as of yesterday they have near half a meter on level snow... This is the deepest I've known it there for this time of year in the 3 years I've been observing. The snows came in October and have remained with only slightl thaws. So to say Scandinavia is warmer then in should be is not entirely accurate 🙂 Edit: just looked at Oslo 5 day forecast and sub zero all week.,, November average is 4C and December 1C so even southern Scandinavia is colder then average at the moment.


My appologies, it has indeed been colder than average across scandanavia.
But as you can see in this chart, most of the atlantic arctic region is significantly warmer than average still.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/tmp/composites/compday.9mvw9H6Dkd.gif 



You mean that warm sector over Svalbard? But it's colder around Iceland, Scotland and Southern Scandinavia.

http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/DATA/cursnow_asiaeurope.gif 

The snow and sea ice came early across Siberia too - august/ September.

I wonder if the reason those areas in your map are way above because of blocked low pressure - hence the widespread early snow cover and sea ice.
Gandalf The White
Monday, November 25, 2013 12:19:56 AM


seems that for cold we need the heights going North in to Greenie, so genuine question here:


what determines whether the higher heights are allowed to shift North or whether the surface high stays separate from the high over the atlantic? 


Hope this makes sense... just seems the models have a different take on what will happen with the two unconnected highs at the c.t200 hour mark?


Originally Posted by: pdiddy 


I think that we touched on this a couple of days ago - and I'm not sure that there's a simple answer.  Essentially, leaving aside the matter of sudden stratospheric warming, to get upper highs to the north you need warm air advection (WAA).   The problem is that  you cannot get WAA to higher latitudes through the path of the jetstream.   So, the jet needs to buckle - but I'm not sure many understand whether the buckling jet promotes WAA or whether a surge of warm uppers is what disturbs the jet.


Obviously a upper high is what is needed to create a block and a surface high without support above tends to be more transient and more likely to move eastwards with the prevailing flow.


The biggest factor in the lack of cold in the outlook is still the close proximity of the mid latitude high in our vicinity and the dominance of the high pressure belt to our south.  Unless that recedes south and/or weakens then the jet can only ride over the top.


I am reassured that the models don't get the detail right beyond days 4-5.  The last cold spell faded away at close range and the current high pressure dominance now looks less secure, with a LP system diving SE at Day 5 which wasn't really showing up a few days ago.  But either way, it's still only a transitory cold blip behind a cold front and nothing longer lasting.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Medlock Vale Weather
Monday, November 25, 2013 12:47:19 AM
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131124/18/192/npsh500.png  We have the two areas of high pressure, over alaska and the north atlantic. In the middle is a shallow greenland high. Taking this chart literally, northern blocking would happen very quickly with the north atlantic high transfering to greenland. The LP over iceland will follow the jetstram and take a path SE, which will become increasingly more southery as the pattern becomes increasingly less flat.

OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I habitually checkout the weathecam and observations for tromso. This year the snows and cold came early and as of yesterday they have near half a meter on level snow... This is the deepest I've known it there for this time of year in the 3 years I've been observing. The snows came in October and have remained with only slightl thaws. So to say Scandinavia is warmer then in should be is not entirely accurate 🙂 Edit: just looked at Oslo 5 day forecast and sub zero all week.,, November average is 4C and December 1C so even southern Scandinavia is colder then average at the moment.


Just to clarify Tromso had a snow depth of 50cm on 7th November last year, so far the deepest this year has been 44cm.


Find it here: Weatheronline.co.uk>Type Tromso>History>Snow depth


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
picturesareme
Monday, November 25, 2013 7:02:44 AM
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131124/18/192/npsh500.png  We have the two areas of high pressure, over alaska and the north atlantic. In the middle is a shallow greenland high. Taking this chart literally, northern blocking would happen very quickly with the north atlantic high transfering to greenland. The LP over iceland will follow the jetstram and take a path SE, which will become increasingly more southery as the pattern becomes increasingly less flat.

OK a few quick observations regarding the models today. Little change in the position of the upper bearing high, and tbh as time passes, that is to be expected. One thing is clear to me, if nothing else is. The models predicted the position of this major feature very well even well into FI, even if the surface pattern was not quite right. Anyway, the high will become a prominent feature at the surface and upper levels in the beaufort and canada. The spoiler in this case is greenland itself. Usually it wouldn't be too difficult to ridge directly into greenland and increase the heights from WAA in the atlantic. However this doesn't happen so well, mostly because greenland is swamped by cyclonic activity and low heights - actually the pressure is unusually low over greenland. So instead of any direct ridging, we are getting the HP wrapping through the beaufort and Northern canada and trying to get to greenland by pushing towards the baffin. Meanwhile the WAA continues to be strong over the bearing and alaska. The result of this, is, despite a more indirect route, broadly the same I think. Eventually the cyclones will clear from greenland and allow high pressure to quickly build over the island. With virtually no cyclonic activity to speak of in canada, it won't be long until heights are not only rising from the pacific arctic, but also from the atlantic - presumably from a midatlantic ridge, moving west towards canada. Because of this diversion, the transition to cold weather is still looking painfully slow - but despite this I still think it will happen abeilt probably more likely towards the end of the range I originally stipulated. The caveat to this of course, is that when the greenland high eventually does form, the scandi low will already be in place to deliver some rather cold uppers (I say rather cold, because the arctic is unfortunately very warm for the time of year - as is scandanavia itself and most of eurasia).

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I habitually checkout the weathecam and observations for tromso. This year the snows and cold came early and as of yesterday they have near half a meter on level snow... This is the deepest I've known it there for this time of year in the 3 years I've been observing. The snows came in October and have remained with only slightl thaws. So to say Scandinavia is warmer then in should be is not entirely accurate 🙂 Edit: just looked at Oslo 5 day forecast and sub zero all week.,, November average is 4C and December 1C so even southern Scandinavia is colder then average at the moment.


Just to clarify Tromso had a snow depth of 50cm on 7th November last year, so far the deepest this year has been 44cm.
Find it here: Weatheronline.co.uk>Type Tromso>History>Snow depth



Weatheronline is wrong ;p

There was 15cm of laying snow on the 7th November 2012.

http://m.yr.no/place/Norway/Troms/Tromsø/Tromsø/almanakk.html?dato=2012-11-07 

And a camera shot to back up,

http://weather.cs.uit.no/cgi-bin/wtstat?time=201211070000&type=day&camera.x=425&camera.y=9 

This is the nearest and only official weather station for tromso.

Also 44cm is 'nearly' half a meter. Intact I reckon the next update will have exceeded 50cm because it snowed most of yesterday.
Gooner
Monday, November 25, 2013 7:47:24 AM

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


Still a spread from December 1st


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


GIBBY
Monday, November 25, 2013 8:24:16 AM
Good morning everyone. A new week but will the weather be any different to that recently. Read on to see how the midnight releases from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM see things shapping up for the next 14 days.

All models currently show High pressure across NW Britain with light and slack winds across the UK. Trapped under this High pressure as expected large amounts of cloud has formed and spread out to give many areas rather cloudy weather which looks like lasting through much of this working week. However, as always some breaks will appear in the cloud and allow frost and fog to form overnight which will continue to occur over the coming nights too. Through the middle of the week Northern areas will become milder for a time before a cold front moving SE at the end of the week starts the weekend off with a chilly NW wind and some bright spells and the odd shower following a band of rain SE on the front through Friday.


GFS then shows High pressure reasserting it's influence across Southern Britain at least for a time early next week with bright and dry conditions while the North quickly become more changeable again with Westerly winds and some rain. This changeable theme then spreads further South and East later next week with a marked wind increase by the second weekend as an unusually deep depression lies to the North, giving severe gales, heavy rain followed by wintry showers to all areas to close the run.


UKMO shows a cold and breezy start to next weekend with wintry showers possible in the East and frost at night. Conditions then moderate through Sunday as a ridge builds from our Atlantic High while the North sees milder Westerly winds returning on Sunday.


GEM today also shows a NW flow to start the weekend, rather cold with some showers for a time, wintry on hills. As we move into next week it's trend is for more unsettled weather to extend to all areas by the middle of the week with wind and rain for all as the High finally collapses and dissolves to the SW.


NAVGEM keeps High pressure across the South to start next week with a milder Atlantic Westerly flow developing across the North. The South would likely see frost and fog patches night and morning while the North is less cold and rather cloudy but mostly dry.


ECM also shows High pressure across the South to start next week although it pulls slowly South and weakens as more instability in the atmosphere pushes down from the North by midweek with the threat of rain increasing for all, first in the North. Temperatures would be close to average through the period.


The GFS Ensembles show a slightly colder domination this morning as the benign conditions of this week slowly give way to more unsettled weather with rain at times and temperatures likely to be close to or rather below normal later in the run which would allow for some snowfall to occur on Northern hills at times.


The Jet Stream driving the weather at the moment is well to the North of the UK and remains there for some time to come. There is signs then of a tilt in the flow to run it SE across the UK at least for a time as pressure falls to the North next week.


In Summary the weather this week will see only slow changes and variations day to day. Anticyclonic gloom will be prevalent but some clearer slots could give rise to frost and freezing fog patches at times before midweek. Then later it looks like most models support an injection of colder clearer air from the NW at the weekend. In Week 2 the trend seems to be for things to slowly turn more unsettled and windy with rain at times as our High finally becomes slowly eroded from the North. Though no prospect of marked cold is shown again this morning some change of air mass to Polar maritime later could bring some wintriness to showers over higher ground especially in the North.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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nsrobins
Monday, November 25, 2013 9:01:16 AM

Another perfunct summary, Martin.

The current stable conditions courtesy of the UK Slug will continue a while, with as you say a short change of airmass over the weekend to clear some of the gunk away.
Nothing remotely 'wintry' looks on the table for some time, but keep watching for changes as they do sometimes occur at short notice.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
turbotubbs
Monday, November 25, 2013 10:25:14 AM

Not really anything constructive to add to the above - thanks as always Gibby. This kind of set up wil resolve at some point - patience will be needed among those who seek cold, but in my favourite corruption - 'at least it won't be MILD'... (or at least not excessively so!)


 


 

nsrobins
Monday, November 25, 2013 10:41:49 AM

As if to relieve the monotony GFS 06Z generates a monster low in FI LOL.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
ARTzeman
Monday, November 25, 2013 10:56:36 AM

Best come back a week on Thursday for a change in output. Will be winter then.






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
The Beast from the East
Monday, November 25, 2013 11:05:25 AM

GEM the only interesting output I can find today!. Oh dear, hopefully these are the dark days before the dawn of the next Daily Express "nuclear winter"


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gandalf The White
Monday, November 25, 2013 11:41:42 AM


As if to relieve the monotony GFS 06Z generates a monster low in FI LOL.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Wasn't there other output in the last 24-48 hours that has done the same thing?  There was one run, I think GFS, which pulled the PV down into southern Scandinavia and gave a brief potent northerly flow over the British Isles.


The pattern remains extremely mobile and there's no sign of any blocking at all, anywhere around the entre northern hemisphere. Even the upper heights that develop over Alaska get pushed away quite rapidly.


I'm sure we have all seen these patterns before and equally we know it can change quite quickly.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Karl Guille
Monday, November 25, 2013 12:11:59 PM

Hang on a minute, bit of a dip showing in the GFS 06z ensembles after 4th December with only a handful of members not at least buying into something a little colder, something that was hinted at in discussion on this thread yesterday!


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/graphe_ens3.php?x=314&ext=1&y=138&run=6&runpara=0


 


St. Sampson
Guernsey
nsrobins
Monday, November 25, 2013 12:43:15 PM


Hang on a minute, bit of a dip showing in the GFS 06z ensembles after 4th December with only a handful of members not at least buying into something a little colder, something that was hinted at in discussion on this thread yesterday!


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/graphe_ens3.php?x=314&ext=1&y=138&run=6&runpara=0


 


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 



OK, I'm not sure what juice the control has been drinking but that's three runs in a row which want to pull a decent looking Northerly in next week. The 06Z run even follows this in an attempt to build heights to the NE.
Very low confidence obviously and all other outcomes have as much chance at the moment but at least it keeps the interest flickering.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gavin P
Monday, November 25, 2013 1:25:49 PM

Hi all,


Here's today's video update:


Thniking About January;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Also some shorter range stuff in there, but not much going on - GFS seems quite keen on some sort of storm around Dec 6th-8th though, which could provide a bit of interest.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Sevendust
Monday, November 25, 2013 1:40:16 PM


Hi all,


Here's today's video update:


Thinking About January;


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Is it really that bad already Gav? 

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