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Gooner
Friday, November 29, 2013 7:16:24 AM


Another day, another round of "Spot the Outlier"!

http://www.meteociel.com/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=306&y=141&ville=Londres
http://www.meteociel.com/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=306&y=141&run=0&ville=Londres&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1


Edit: And as it's not been discussed here as far as I can tell, yesterday's 32-day ECM control run shows a toppler at 240, another toppler at 360 and that's then followed by a relatively mobile period. Pressure eventually builds to the NE by 576. A battle then ensues, with a really deep low to the SW by 624 and strong easterlies over the UK (850s are only below -5C from northern England northwards, however). Christmas Day sees a trough moving NE'wards with heavy rain for all and the run ends (at 762) with a ridge over England and Wales and SW'lies elsewhere from a deep and complex area of low pressure near Iceland.


Originally Posted by: Retron 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:06:40 AM

GEM looks the best option for the longer term but seems to be out on its own


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2401.gif


In the meantime, our cold snap next weekend is still there but not as potent


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Arbroath 1320
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:20:23 AM

Another one bites the dust. So it would seem again. Perhaps it would be better if we could only see out to +144, then we wouldnt let ourselves get sucked in


 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



Apart from the odd run, recent model output has suggested only transient cold and a sinking high always seemed likely. Based on the current output it's hard to see any prospect of a sustained cold spell for at least a few weeks.
GGTTH
Retron
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:36:12 AM

0z ECM EPS shows a mean maximum of 3C on days 9 and 10 in Reading.


Leysdown, north Kent
GIBBY
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:45:26 AM

Hi everyone. Here is this morning's account of the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Friday November 29th 2013.


All models maintain High pressure close to the West of Britain over the next three or four days. It's centre has pulled a little further West today which has allowed a colder and fresher NW flow down across the UK today behind a weak cold front, For most this will mean largely dry conditions still but brighter and cleaner air later will improve the complexion of the day. This weather type with a few showers, wintry on hills in the NW will last through until later tomorrow when the High moves back towards the UK and brings a return to cloudy skies down from the NW with benign and non-descript weather for the following few days, taking us towards the middle of next week when some change begin to take place.


GFS then splits High pressure East and west of the UK but with very little difference felt at the surface as winds remain very light and slack over the UK away from a stiffer westerly breeze in the far North. Then at the end of next week, probably on Friday a cold front introduces cold and clearer air down to all areas with some wintry showers over he North and East for a time before High pressure returns across the UK with sharp frosts and fog patches. The second half of the operational today sinks High pressure down to the SE but close enough by to maintain largely fine conditions. Temperatures would steadily rise through the period with some very mild weather possible across Southern Britain later if a low level inversion can be avoided.


UKMO today shows High pressure over the Eastern Atlantic next Thursday orientated West to East with a strong ridge across Southern Britain maintaining the theme of cloudy and largely dry weather with average temperatures for England and Wales while Scotland and Northern Ireland see a stronger Westerly wind and occasional rain later.


GEM this morning shows High pressure close to or over Southern Britain towards the end of next week relaxing South briefly to allow a change in weather type to dry and cold weather with clearer skies later in the run with frost and fog at night becoming much more of an issue as High pressure builds back across all areas to end the run.


NAVGEM shows High pressure close to the SW late next week with rather cloudy and dry conditions giving way to a spell of wet and windy weather in the North as a small Low zips East across Scotland. The South would probably see a little rain from this as it's cold front cleared SE.


ECM shows a ridge across Southern Britain next Thursday with winds freshening markedly from the West with rain over the North. The High is then pulled West as a strong Northerly flow pushes down through Friday to all areas with very cold conditions with snow showers giving accumulations in Northern and Eastern areas for a time. Then through next weekend the cold air relaxes as winds back NW then West bringing less cold and more cloudy air across the UK from off the Atlantic with temperatures slowly returning to average.


The GFS Ensembles show a rather cold set overall this morning with the operational I described above very much one of the warmest members of the pack later on. It looks like most members support a rather cold period between the 5th -11th and with some precipitation around sleet and snow is a possibility for a time, especially across the North and East while the South look likely to avoid this. As usual a wide range options are shown late in the run with the most likely scenario being a return to average early December values with rainfall amounts looking still quite suppressed through the period, especially in the South.


The Jet Stream this morning is programmed to maintain it's path to the North of the UK for the next 5-6 days before it turns SE or South across the UK in association with the colder phase late next week. It then returns slightly further north to a positions between Scotland and Iceland thereafter on a NE course indicating a bias towards High pressure close to SE England.


In Summary this morning the models are all over the place with conditions in the interesting part of the output from the middle of next week. In the shorter term the quiet and benign pattern remains with few features in the weather offering any interest with much cloud cover, light winds and temperatures close to average with little in the way of frost and fog away from tonight and possibly tomorrow night in the South. The fun and games begin later next week with some output showing a potent plunge of cold air from the North leading to some snowfall for some, more especially in the North and East. Some output make little of this pushing the thrust of this too far East while most others weaken it quite quickly as High pressure builds back in from the West with a spell of cold and clear weather with sharp frosts seeming likely before the inevitable infill of cloud returns with slowly less cold conditions and a return to what we have now possible. It remains interesting over the next few runs how this phase of potentially very cold weather is developed or dissolved to nothing more than a blip. Time alone will tell.
Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:50:11 AM

For pattern watchers this autumn/winter is turning out to be 


1. High pressure (mostly cloudy) drifts in from SW


2. A forecast retreat of the HP to allow northerly feed - cold rampers all excited


3. Northerly gets shunted off to the other side of the North Sea instead - collapse of cold rampers


4. Repeat


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
ARTzeman
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:51:58 AM

Thank you Martin .


Good changes in the output. No doubt "THE PLUNGE" will make a lot of people happy.






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
Lionel Hutz
Friday, November 29, 2013 8:58:43 AM

Time alone will tell.



How true. Good summary as always


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



nsrobins
Friday, November 29, 2013 9:54:57 AM

Regardless of the longevity and severity of any Northerly push, we're still having issues getting this 'event' into the sub 180 range.
Experience dictates that more often than not when northerlies are repeatedly pushed back (it was due Tues/Weds next week, then Thurs and Fri and now next weekend), confidence remains low and expectations should be tempered as such.

You can't have cross-model agreement until we see the synoptics develop sub-144 when what we see of the MetO run comes into play, and that is being delayed at the moment.
Until then it all remains essentially virtual and it's a case of watching and waiting. Either way if a northerly of some description does develop, the chances are it will be short-lived.
Never say never and the detail will no doubt swing and sway as the next few days pass.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Andy Woodcock
Friday, November 29, 2013 10:17:07 AM
If you are of a nervous disposition don't look at GFS FI because in 10 days the daddy of all Bartletts sets out over Central Europe.

Shaped like a giant slug it is a horror show for anyone liking their winters on the cool side.

Till then the ECM northerly next weekend looks nice for the east.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Andy Woodcock
Friday, November 29, 2013 10:19:56 AM

Regardless of the longevity and severity of any Northerly push, we're still having issues getting this 'event' into the sub 180 range.
Experience dictates that more often than not when northerlies are repeatedly pushed back (it was due Tues/Weds next week, then Thurs and Fri and now next weekend), confidence remains low and expectations should be tempered as such.

You can't have cross-model agreement until we see the synoptics develop sub-144 when what we see of the MetO run comes into play, and that is being delayed at the moment.
Until then it all remains essentially virtual and it's a case of watching and waiting. Either way if a northerly of some description does develop, the chances are it will be short-lived.
Never say never and the detail will no doubt swing and sway as the next few days pass.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Good analysis but even if it happens I can't see a way for it to last more than 3 days, it's a classic 'Two Day Toppler'

Andy

Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Gooner
Friday, November 29, 2013 10:29:45 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013112906/gfsnh-0-180.png?6


Different again


the 0z had the Northerlies off into the N sea at this point


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Friday, November 29, 2013 10:38:34 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013112906/gfsnh-1-192.png?6


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013112906/gfsnh-0-192.png?6


Some decent cold across the Uk how brief will it be


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Rob K
Friday, November 29, 2013 10:51:17 AM
So as the GFS backs away from a northerly, the ECM ramps it up. How often have we seen this in recent years?

Although the 06Z GFS is markedly chillier than the 00Z (unsurprisingly as that was a real mildfest!)
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Retron
Friday, November 29, 2013 10:58:29 AM
The 6z GFS shows a similar sort of pattern to the ECM32 control run - a rinse and reload sort of thing, followed by something brewing to the NE. In the ECM32's case the something never quite delivered, but the GFS doesn't go out that far.
Leysdown, north Kent
Gooner
Friday, November 29, 2013 11:23:50 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013112906/gfsnh-0-240.png?6


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013112906/gfsnh-0-372.png?6


 


Northerly after Northerly on this run


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
Friday, November 29, 2013 11:37:36 AM


For pattern watchers this autumn/winter is turning out to be 


1. High pressure (mostly cloudy) drifts in from SW


2. A forecast retreat of the HP to allow northerly feed - cold rampers all excited


3. Northerly gets shunted off to the other side of the North Sea instead - collapse of cold rampers


4. Repeat


Originally Posted by: DEW 


I haven't collapsed 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
bowser
Friday, November 29, 2013 11:44:29 AM


I'm not complaining


Some potency in those charts for next weekend that we didn't see too much of last year, but there I will plenty of chopping and changing as usual.

White Meadows
Friday, November 29, 2013 12:10:24 PM

If you are of a nervous disposition don't look at GFS FI because in 10 days the daddy of all Bartletts sets out over Central Europe.

Shaped like a giant slug it is a horror show for anyone liking their winters on the cool side.

Till then the ECM northerly next weekend looks nice for the east.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


You call this a Bartlett?


 http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png


Chiltern Blizzard
Friday, November 29, 2013 1:38:42 PM

If you are of a nervous disposition don't look at GFS FI because in 10 days the daddy of all Bartletts sets out over Central Europe.

Shaped like a giant slug it is a horror show for anyone liking their winters on the cool side.

Till then the ECM northerly next weekend looks nice for the east.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


I agree, the slug monster is immovable.... utterly horrific for coldies 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.png 


And as for day 16.... it makes 1988/89 look like an ice age!  I'm off to buy shares in Bic and Gillette! 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png


Andrew


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Chiltern Blizzard
Friday, November 29, 2013 1:42:32 PM

Seriously though, that's one hell of a blizzard over the low countries!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2404.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


Andrew


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
moomin75
Friday, November 29, 2013 1:46:42 PM


Seriously though, that's one hell of a blizzard over the low countries!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2404.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


Andrew


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 

Quite snowy here too mate.


Shame it was the 6z.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Chiltern Blizzard
Friday, November 29, 2013 1:53:58 PM



Seriously though, that's one hell of a blizzard over the low countries!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2404.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


Andrew


Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Quite snowy here too mate.


Shame it was the 6z.


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


Actually more like a couple of inches of frozen rain


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2402.png


Now that would make a historic weather event!


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Chiltern Blizzard
Friday, November 29, 2013 1:58:12 PM



Seriously though, that's one hell of a blizzard over the low countries!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2404.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


Andrew


Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Quite snowy here too mate.


Shame it was the 6z.


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


Indeed, a Bartlett will inevitably replace what's shown at T+240 on the 12z!


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
moomin75
Friday, November 29, 2013 1:59:23 PM




Seriously though, that's one hell of a blizzard over the low countries!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2404.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


Andrew


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 

Quite snowy here too mate.


Shame it was the 6z.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Indeed, a Bartlett will inevitably replace what's shown at T+240 on the 12z!


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 

So I gather....but it hasn't really been showing a "Bartlett" in its truest sense at any stage.


 


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
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