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Saint Snow
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 4:09:27 PM

Just had the second snow shower in central Manchester of the afternoon




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Essan
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 4:42:51 PM

Just has some partially melted large graupel mixed in with some spots of rain .....  It looked like snow ...


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Snow Hoper
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 4:57:08 PM

That big lump in the North Sea needs watching. Not sure if it'll produce the goods should it make landfall but it certainly is interesting.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Snow Hoper
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:01:27 PM


All eyes on Thursday. Done an ARPEGE fronal overlay.



 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


Latest forecast I've seen seems to suggest that Thursday won't be a bad day overall with Friday being the day it turns Wet and windy.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:12:44 PM


 


 


Latest forecast I've seen seems to suggest that Thursday won't be a bad day overall with Friday being the day it turns Wet and windy.


Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 


ARPEGE trumps EURO4 imho.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:23:01 PM
We had a prolonged spell of snow this morning for over an hour but thanks to the warmth of the April sun the ground was to warm for it to settle. Before and to a lesser extent after then we have had a mix of wintry showers here in Aberdeen. There is also a severe weather warning out for snow accumulation and ice tonight (to low levels).
Bertwhistle
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 5:23:59 PM


Ben Stokes tweeted:


Ben Stokes ‏@benstokes38 28m28 minutes ago North East, England


 


Umpires having a look


 



Originally Posted by: NickR 


Are you suggesting that's the cricket pitch?


Anyway, all the children at school came in screaming that it had snowed in the playground just after 1230 today. I missed it completely- but the temperature was above 8°C. That seems high- is it likely it was soft hail?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
springsunshine
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:03:03 PM

This is just ridiculous!! ffs what is going on??


We get December weather/temps in April and April temps in December


I have never known things to be so topsy turvey so often for so long.


Anyone else remember this day 5 years ago,now that was proper spring weather

Whether Idle
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:05:03 PM


This is just ridiculous!! ffs what is going on??


We get December weather/temps in April and April temps in December


I have never known things to be so topsy turvey so often for so long.


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


Its not that unusual.  Snow is more common at Easter than Christmas.   Thermal lag.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
KevBrads1
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:07:20 PM


 


Its not that unusual.  Snow is more common at Easter than Christmas.   Thermal lag.


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


I posted a thread on this recently which suggest that it is not exactly true, certainly not around here anyway,


 


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:07:29 PM

I question the whole 'its not that unusual' narrative. Superficially 'snow in april' yes is not that unusual. But:


 


Its late April (nearly May)


The snow is widespread occurring even in central London


Severe enough that the metoffice has issued two yellow warnings.


 


This is unusual; probably a 1 in 20 or 30 year occurance


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Solar Cycles
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:09:47 PM


I question the whole 'its not that unusual' narrative. Superficially 'snow in april' yes is not that unusual. But:


 


Its late April (nearly May)


The snow is widespread occurring even in central London


Severe enough that the metoffice has issued two yellow warnings.


 


This is unusual; probably a 1 in 20 or 30 year occurance


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I would agree with that and put it in the 1/30 bracket.

Whether Idle
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:21:25 PM


I question the whole 'its not that unusual' narrative. Superficially 'snow in april' yes is not that unusual. But:


 


Its late April (nearly May)


The snow is widespread occurring even in central London


Severe enough that the metoffice has issued two yellow warnings.


 


This is unusual; probably a 1 in 20 or 30 year occurance


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Most of the snow reports are erroneous.  It is soft hail for the most part which even those in the know confuse with snow.


I think a run of milder than average Aprils has removed some perspective. 


1985 saw snow on April 27th in Dover.


1989 snow on April 4th.


7 April 2008 saw up to 4" snow in Sussex.


1975 snow frequent in April especially 9th,


April 2013 snow on 3rd. April


April 1981 much more snow on 23-25th


May 1st (I think) 1979 - snow fell widely edit - 1st-4th - check out this chart for 4th:



2 June 1975...


and going further back...May 1955 snow reached south coast


16 April 1966 snow (6" in Kent).


...and today we have had lots of graupel sleet and a few wet snow showers.  .


 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
SJV
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:22:18 PM

Thought I'd share a photo of the typical cloudscape today. This was taken about 6.45pm this evening, and it is very indicative of conditions this afternoon with frequent and heavy snow showers 


Whether Idle
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 7:38:40 PM

Copied from a weather enthusiasts site (Dan Dan the weatherman) - this focusses more on May snowfall rather than April, but you get the idea...


 


Late Season Snow in the UK
January and February are the snowiest months in the UK, whilst snow is more likely in March and April than November and October respectively. And really this is where talk of snow might be expected to end. However, having already most likely teased us with some pleasant summer-like weather earlier in the spring May is prone to throwing in a touch of winter, perhaps more often than might be thought………


A trawl through the archives reveals that on 17th May 1955 was probably the most notable May snowfall on record. Much of England and Wales was affected by several hours of snow (Eden 1995), including two to three hours’ worth in the London area (Brazell, 1968).



Coincidentally, the same date twenty years earlier in 1935 also saw England and Wales affected by widespread snow with some places, including theWirral and parts of Devon recording several inches of snow (Eden 1995). Incidentally, on 17th May 1935 snow also fell in the central Netherlands (Zwart 1985) and this is the latest in the season that snow has been observed here.


May 8th 1943 saw snow falling over parts of northern Britain as a depression tracked eastwards across north Wales. The Isle of Man was among the worst hit places and in Douglas 15cms snow lay on the ground by the morning of the 9th (Pritchard 1997?), whilst virtually the whole of Scotland was affected, including falls of 7cms at Duntulm, Isle of Skye (Stirling 1997). Such is the fickleness of May weather that just a few days later temperatures reached 30C in Kent.


Other notable instances of May snowfall include that of mid-May 1923, Scotland’s coldest May of the 20th century and the century’s second coldest May in England and Wales, whilst May 18th 1968 saw snow falling as far south as the Midlands. Meanwhile, a little more recently the Mays of 1979, 1981 and 1982 started with widespread wintry showers whilst May 13th 1993 saw several centimetres of snow settling over the higher ground in central Britain (Pritchard 1997?), including a fall of 30cm at Moor House in County Durham by the 14th (Stirling 1997).


Stepping back into the nineteenth century Eden (1995) and Stirling (997) report widespread snow England between the 16th and 18th May 1891. Snow fell to depths of several inches in some places, including falls measured at 15cms deep in parts of the Midlands and East Anglia. A few days earlier on the 10th snow had fallen as far south as Bath and London (Stirling 1997).


Meanwhile, Gordon Manley, writing in Weather in 1975 tells of snowfall in southern Britain on 22nd May 1867 and 27th May 1821 whilst Brazell (1968) mentions snow as having fallen in or close to the London area on 12th May 1816, ‘the year without a summer’.


Moving into the eighteenth and late seventeenth centuries Manley (1975) raises the possibility of snow being observed on parts of the higher ground in Sussex on 12th June 1791. Early May snowfall was recorded in parts of the London area in 1770 whilst in 1698 a widespread deep snow was reported all over England on 3rd May (Brazell 1968).


Inevitably June snowfall is a much rarer creature, but widespread sleet and snow showers did manage to affect the United Kingdom on 2nd June 1975, rudely and infamously affecting a cricket match between Derbyshire and Lancashire at Buxton where early afternoon snow covered the pitch with around an inch of snow (Markham, 1994, Eden 1995). Elsewhere, snow settled on hills just south of Birmingham (Eden 1995), whilst to the south and east Manley (1975) reports snow being observed in both Cambridge and London and another county cricket match, this time featuring Essex and Kent, being played in Colchester was interrupted by snow (Ogley et al. 1993). Meanwhile, sleet showers were observed in RAF Manston in eastern Kent, Hassocks, Sussex and Totton and Portsmouth in Hampshire (COL Bulletin 1975, Eden 1995, Ogley en al 1995).


In his book Weatherwise, Philip Eden (1995) wonderfully describes this June snowfall as, "surely the most outrageous thing that June has ever done to us, meteorologically speaking". It also seems that in recent times at least this is the latest in the season that such widespread snow has managed to affect southern Britain (Manley 1975, Eden 1995) and Manley (1975) suggests that the June 1975 snowfall was probably southern Britain’s latest snowfall since the turn of the nineteenth century.


A little more recently, a sleet shower was reported at Birmingham Airport during the morning of 7th June 1985, whilst in the evening snow fell at Eskdalemuir in southern Scotland (Burt 1985, COL Bulletin 1985). However, it would see, that this does of wintry weather was much more localised than the snowfall of 2nd June 1975.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Crepuscular Ray
Tuesday, April 26, 2016 9:32:43 PM
Worth mentioning that the Met Office regard soft hail/graupel as a day of snow.
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
Crepuscular Ray
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 6:03:43 AM
The Pentlands (400-500m) are white this morning, from overnight snow
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
doctormog
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 6:15:21 AM
Regarding not unusual, there has been a lot of graupel/soft hail but quite a few places have had snow showers too. At the start of April that's not that uncommon, at the end much more so, even here.

As for cold, I think the Met Office Chief Forecasters comment hit the nail on the head "The arctic airmass remains in place, bringing unusually cold conditions for this far into the spring."

Perhaps this situation may occur every 10 or even 20 years. That it is not exactly usual, it's just not unprecedented.
idj20
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:24:00 AM

Let's put it another way, it seems to be classed as unusual for me to experience widespread snow in deep winter, never mind at this time of the year.    

Anyway, back on topic, looks like being a rinse & repeat thing for today.


Folkestone Harbour. 
KevBrads1
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:33:06 AM
May 1995 and 1997 saw snow falling to low levels. I saw snow falling on the Saturday of the Bank Holiday May Day weekend in 1987.
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
NickR
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:34:28 AM
Have there been any examples of snow in July or August?
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
idj20
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:39:32 AM

Have there been any examples of snow in July or August?

Originally Posted by: NickR 



Actually, I remember looking up about that and it appears that July & August snowfalls in the UK are virtually unheard of. The only type of snow that does hang around at that time of the year are usually in well shaded sides of Scottish mountains as packed "glacier"-like formations.   

I'm sure our Quantum will carry on issuing snow watch threads anyway.


Folkestone Harbour. 
KevBrads1
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:45:07 AM

Have there been any examples of snow in July or August?

Originally Posted by: NickR 


11th July 1888 snow fell down to modest levels. Also seen a report from July 1938.


There were also reports of snow during May 2010. It's funny how the 3 changes in government (1979, 1997, 2010) that occurred in May, all reported snow.


 


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
TomC
  • TomC
  • Advanced Member
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:56:00 AM
This question of snow vs graupel or soft hail in convective precipitation is always a difficult one. They are classified by WMO as two distinct forms of precipitation which is true to an extent but there is really a continuum. Snow forms by the vapour growth of ice crystals, graupel when the snow crystals collide with supercooled water (which freezes on the ice surface ie riming) which you get a lot of in convective clouds with strong updraughts. Of course, you get particles with a wide range of degrees riming and growth from the vapour. The more rime the denser the particles, and the faster they fall, so the further below the freezing level they penetrate before melting.
Skreever
Wednesday, April 27, 2016 8:10:31 AM
Snow on the hill behind the house this morning - patches in the garden.
Veteran of winter of 62/63
By Scapa Flow, Orkney

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