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Bugglesgate
29 March 2020 17:07:33


More on killing the little buggers here:


https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-household-cleaning-products-can-kill-the-virus-an-expert-on-which-ones-to-use-134301


Notably it says about surface wipes:


"The antiseptic works well on bacteria as well as on coronaviruses that infect mice and dogs – but it seems to make no difference to the spread of human coronavirus."


 


Originally Posted by: RobN 


 


Really depends what in the wipes.  Alcohol definitely works. takes 30 seconds to kill in  concentrations  between 95% and 78%






















































Ethanol95%SARS-CoVIsolate FFM-130 s≥ 5.5[29]
85%SARS-CoVIsolate FFM-130 s≥ 5.5[29]
80%SARS-CoVIsolate FFM-130 s≥ 4.3[29]
80%MERS-CoVStrain EMC30 s> 4.0[14]
78%SARS-CoVIsolate FFM-130 s≥ 5.0[28]
70%MHVStrains MHV-2 and MHV-N10 min> 3.9

[30]


 



 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
fairweather
29 March 2020 17:07:51

At these daily briefings we keep hearing about PPE. But we are still not delivering.

We keep being told we will test 10k a day but it’s not happening.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


I'm afraid this Government has always been good at talking the talk but ...........


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Gandalf The White
29 March 2020 17:10:35

From my local observations at least, I believe the numbers of people walking or driving about is low enough to seriously impede the spread. Here at least, it seems like enough. Might be different elsewhere if adherence is less good.

Nationwide, we will see what happens to the figures in about 10 days time - that is when I expect to see them start to fall. On current form, that means we might still see two or three doublings yet.

Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Similar around here although I haven’t ventured to Royston since Friday.


I was thinking that this is analogue and not binary, ie it’s not necessary that everyone complies, just sufficient to drive down the transmission rate.


Given the incubation period of up to ten days it is likely to be another week before we see the effects of the tighter restrictions. 

Someone made the point that when restrictions start to be eased they will be by degrees with at least a couple of weeks to assess the impact. It is likely to be a very long road back to normality with some potholes along the way.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


xioni2
29 March 2020 17:10:45

A bit more on the dodgy test kits that Spain purchased from a company in China


https://www.politico.eu/article/spanish-government-under-fire-after-defective-testing-kits-fiasco/


They actually bought them from a Spanish company, which was sourcing them from a company in China. They had the CE mark, but the Chinese govt said that the company is not licensed for medical products.


I think this highlights the potential problems with many products marked CE on Amazon and ebay.


 

Bugglesgate
29 March 2020 17:11:20


 


I read that it didn't survive for more than a few seconds in the air as tests had shown it couldn't form aerosols like measles can and the larger heavy droplets drop to the ground. You do wonder why it still spreads like wildfire with the world seemingly being so careful though.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


 


Quite !


If it's not being picked up on surfaces, I really can't see how it could have spread   so far and fast.  


There must be vectors other than being directly coughed at.


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
Maunder Minimum
29 March 2020 17:13:09


 


I would have expected the complete opposite. These things can only be tackled by global cooperation. Human kindness has seen to have grown. Maybe we should re-join the EU. At least we would have got some PPE.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


The only way to deal with a pandemic is to close borders.


If that were not the case, why would those countries which have got on top of the first round of contagion, like South Korea, now be locking down their borders as they are?


 


New world order coming.
Brian Gaze
29 March 2020 17:13:35


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Ulric
29 March 2020 17:14:18


Similar around here although I haven’t ventured to Royston since Friday.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Perhaps we'll bump into each other in M&S one day?


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Lionel Hutz
29 March 2020 17:17:41


 


Dodgy data. 



Originally Posted by: xioni2 


😁 Well, there's alot of that about 😉


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
29 March 2020 17:18:08

Depressing but entirely predictable side effects - effectively cancer surgery is now being triaged:


https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cancer-covid19-1.5512599


 


--
Paul.
Essan
29 March 2020 17:20:00


Incidentally if you can get hold of it, the current batch of Pilgrims Choice Extra Mature cheddar has a "use by" date in July...


Originally Posted by: Retron 



Hard cheeses can be eaten long after the use by date - at worst, just cut any mould off.   


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
xioni2
29 March 2020 17:20:27




Originally Posted by: P Morgan 


There are 2 possible answers to this:


A) Lorries of tests are moving around the country as we speak


B) The Germans are lying too.

Maunder Minimum
29 March 2020 17:22:53


 


I don't understand why there's not more testing in the UK. We're doing 5k tests a day here now according to a piece on RTE(our BBC). To put that in perspective, your population is 12/13 times bigger than ours. Our health service is at best on a par with yours(and possibly behind it) so I don't understand why the UK isn't doing way more tests.


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


Policy. But they should have started testing NHS staff much sooner.


New world order coming.
pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
29 March 2020 17:25:57


I was thinking that this is analogue and not binary, ie it’s not necessary that everyone complies, just sufficient to drive down the transmission rate.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Yes - I was mulling this over as well. Thinking of our change in habits over the last couple of weeks, we have probably gone from hundreds of possible transmission points per week to only a handful. School, work, shopping and the kids' activities were by far the biggest risk areas. Even with partial compliance, shutting these must be the best initial measure in terms of slowing the spread.


What I don't know is how much more marginal gain you get with an even tighter lock down - if it's small this might explain why the govt. is reluctant to bring it in.


--
Paul.
picturesareme
29 March 2020 17:26:01


 


Are you sure about some of them? Spanish flu started in China? Hong Kong was not part of China in 1968? Asia flu started in Singapore?


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


The exact origins of Spanish flu are not known for certain though it is now believed to have originated in north China and was brought to Europe with labourers.


Asia flu originate back in China in 1956 before spreading out.


Hong Kong still full of Chinese with traditional cultures and behaviours.

Brian Gaze
29 March 2020 17:28:39


 


I don't understand why there's not more testing in the UK. We're doing 5k tests a day here now according to a piece on RTE(our BBC). To put that in perspective, your population is 12/13 times bigger than ours. Our health service is at best on a par with yours(and possibly behind it) so I don't understand why the UK isn't doing way more tests.


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


Several reasons are cited. It seems the most likely one is a lack of labs able to process tests. I believe in the UK there are about 12 and they are all owned by the NHS / government. In contrast the German healthcare system apparently is able to call on the services of a large number of private labs and consequently has FAR more capacity. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Bugglesgate
29 March 2020 17:32:07




Hard cheeses can be eaten long after the use by date - at worst, just cut any mould off.   


Originally Posted by: Essan 



Cheese is pretty safe - I never look at the sell by dates, just off cut the unappetising mouldy bits and the bits that have  gone hard.  It's fine inside still.


Likewise, I found a Mellon at the bottom of my storage cupboard yesterday.  One part had gone  black and mushy.  I just cut that bit out and diced the rest up beautifully ripe  and  sweet.  One of the best melons I've tasted or years !  I'm seriously considering letting them all go like that before digging in.


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
Heavy Weather 2013
29 March 2020 17:32:26
I wish someone would have recorded every time a member of the government had said we are close to 10k tests.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
fairweather
29 March 2020 17:33:56

One good thing to come out of this is to remind everybody how brilliant the BBC are in a time of crisis and how much we need a public broadcasting service. They have been pure class throughout this and I am sure it will shift the Government's view on them. Many parts of the world are also dependent on their broadcasts.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
29 March 2020 17:39:16
The question about lockdown which is being studiously avoided is what is it expected to achieve.

If it were near total you could stop transmission and after several weeks those infected would be clear and it might largely 'go away'.
But it will still be widespread in other parts of the world so all but impossible to stop it flaring up again.
We are still in the position where 60-80% need to have it and become immune, delaying that by a few weeks doesn't seem to help a great deal even if it's possible.
Meanwhile the ever extending shutdown of most economic activity will cause many problems down the line with vital spare parts becoming unavailable for example. Things will simply breakdown totally if we're not careful.
The next big worry is how long the banks can survive with a basket case economy.
If all the helpful online payments and such suddenly stop working the results don't bear thinking about.

IMO we must start to relax restrictions after a month at most - hopefully this will be helped by widely available antibody tests but like a lot more things that doesn't quite seem to be happening as planned.
We will all be used to distancing rules and that can carry on without total shutdown


Gavin D
29 March 2020 17:40:34
France have reported 2,599 new cases and 292 new deaths

New cases have fallen by 2,012 with 27 less new deaths
Heavy Weather 2013
29 March 2020 17:44:17
I have just spoken to a friend in France. From tomorrow they will be reporting deaths in care homes and he has said the numbers will not be good
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Ulric
29 March 2020 17:45:45


Several reasons are cited. It seems the most likely one is a lack of labs able to process tests. I believe in the UK there are about 12 and they are all owned by the NHS / government. In contrast the German healthcare system apparently is able to call on the services of a large number of private labs and consequently has FAR more capacity. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Not lack of test kits then? Labs can be requisitioned but manufacturing can't if it doesn't exist.


Same goes for ventilators.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52083998


 


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Heavy Weather 2013
29 March 2020 17:45:46

The question about lockdown which is being studiously avoided is what is it expected to achieve.

If it were near total you could stop transmission and after several weeks those infected would be clear and it might largely 'go away'.
But it will still be widespread in other parts of the world so all but impossible to stop it flaring up again.
We are still in the position where 60-80% need to have it and become immune, delaying that by a few weeks doesn't seem to help a great deal even if it's possible.
Meanwhile the ever extending shutdown of most economic activity will cause many problems down the line with vital spare parts becoming unavailable for example. Things will simply breakdown totally if we're not careful.
The next big worry is how long the banks can survive with a basket case economy.
If all the helpful online payments and such suddenly stop working the results don't bear thinking about.

IMO we must start to relax restrictions after a month at most - hopefully this will be helped by widely available antibody tests but like a lot more things that doesn't quite seem to be happening as planned.
We will all be used to distancing rules and that can carry on without total shutdown

Originally Posted by: four 


We must continue with lockdown for another 6 weeks. I would go further to suggest we need a further intensification for at least the next three weeks from Monday. 


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
xioni2
29 March 2020 17:46:08

How much of our economy has really shut down though? Many people (could even be half of workers) are working from home, most of construction continues, food retailers are obviously booming, even many estate agents still seem to be open (with closed doors).


The travel and hospitality sectors are obviously being decimated, but it must be a complex picture overall. Arguably countries that rely more on tourism will suffer more.


 

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