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Gavin D
04 April 2020 19:12:21

Birmingham Nightingale hospital 'accelerated' as midlands coronavirus death toll rises




Quote


Ministers said preparations for the new Nightingale hospital for the region will be "accelerated" as the Midlands recorded a higher coronavirus death toll than London on Friday. NHS England said 212 people diagnosed with Covid-19 died in the Midlands in the 24 hours to 5pm on Friday. A total of 637 people died in England over that period, including 127 in London.


Speaking at the daily Number 10 press conference on Saturday, Michael Gove labelled the Midlands "a particular area of concern" and said "the NHS and the military are accelerating their existing work to transform the National Exhibition Centre into a 2,000-bed Nightingale hospital". The Cabinet minister also said he had spoken to the mayor of the West Midlands Andy Street about the ongoing crisis. 





https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/birmingham-nightingale-hospital-accelerated/


Bolty
04 April 2020 19:13:59


US demand for firearms surges amid pandemic


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52163523


 


"Weapons stores have been included as non-essential businesses and ordered to shut in some states, though this has resulted in legal challenges over whether this contravenes the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms."


The collective insanity of the US of A knows no bounds.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


Only in America!


In all seriousness though, I think a lot of people, myself included, are now anticipated civil unrest once the virus itself has run it's course. It really do see it happening when the lockdown frustration, the loss of people's jobs and their financial situation becoming more insecure hits home.


Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
Justin W
04 April 2020 19:15:06

Everything has changed. The free market will have to be suspended for several years. We cannot simply return to business as usual.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Maunder Minimum
04 April 2020 19:15:10


What we're dealing with. Some very good points here.


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


Good article HT - do you have a link to the original?


New world order coming.
Maunder Minimum
04 April 2020 19:18:07


Birmingham Nightingale hospital 'accelerated' as midlands coronavirus death toll rises




Quote

 


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Even the Guardian can understand why the West Midlands is a hot spot:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/west-midlands-emerges-as-a-hotspot-for-coronavirus-deaths


"...


Earlier this week the government said it was investigating the reasons behind a hotspot emerging in the region. Anecdotal evidence suggested people’s religious convictions and fears of social isolation could be leading to a sharp rise in the number of coronavirus transmissions in the area.


In an interview with the Guardian, the Birmingham MP Khalid Mahmood said older Muslim and Sikh people in the area were struggling to adhere to government guidelines about physical distancing because of their religious convictions.


Despite most religious services being cancelled, some older people were allegedly continuing to attend mosques and gurdwaras to pray, Mahmood said.


..."


Bloody religion! Same as in parts of Israel. Listen people - belief in the Sky Fairy does not protect you from a virus!


New world order coming.
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
04 April 2020 19:21:22


 


Yes she does and so does our son-in-law.


Problem is that we won't be able to afford universal healthcare if the economy is totally trashed.


We should have done what Taiwan did - closed borders to infected countries with full screening at ports - that is what I wrote to my MP in February to urge, but they would not listen. Therefore, the only realistic alternative is to move towards herd immunity - the best way to achieve that is to shield the most vulnerable groups and then to relax the lockdown. In my opinion, we should relax the lockdown by the end of this week, allow healthy people to enjoy Easter, gets the pubs and restaurants open again (but with internal distancing) and do everything we can to protect those most at risk from the virus.


Most healthy, younger people catch the virus and then recover.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Whereabouts on these charts would you say your proposed approach lies? I assume you have done some sort of rational numerical assessment of the outcome of your proposal - rather than rely solely on ideologically based gut feel.



 


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gandalf The White
04 April 2020 19:21:55


 


The NHS would quickly be overwhelmed with critical cases. And so more people would die. That is why it frightened the bejesus out of HMG three weeks ago. It’s a non-starter. We have to reduce the amount of infection first and then relax the restrictions.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Exactly, which has been the government policy since they realised that their ill-conceived 'Plan A' was a disaster in the making.


As I've said before, we need to get the cases down significantly to give the overstretched NHS staff a chance to recover, never mind relaxing the restrictions.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


fairweather
04 April 2020 19:25:01


 


It wasn't Covid-19.


I've had the flu exactly once in my life - at Christmas 2009. It sucked.


Symptoms wise, it was very similar to Covid-19. Fever (shivers and shakes, night sweats) and a racking cough - the only time (apart from the past couple of weeks) that I've ever had a cough. It was much worse than the one I've had recently and it made me cough so much it really hurt - and that cough lingered for a few weeks even after the flu had gone. The other symptoms were a sore throat (which I always get before a regular cold, I had one before this recent cough too) and extreme tiredness - I just wanted to sleep, which wasn't terribly easy with that cough.


The saving grace was that I didn't have any snottiness whatsoever.


What I'm getting at is that regular flu is perfectly capable of causing the symptoms you described. As I said before, regular colds and flu haven't gone anywhere and yes, thousands - tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands - will have had regular flu this winter.


EDIT: And of all places, the Daily Mail's report from mid-December shows this up well, remarking that far more people than usual had been hospitalised with the flu.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7810129/Flu-cases-EIGHT-TIMES-higher-point-UK-winter.html 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Darren - how many times to I have to say I'm not saying it is Corona virus before you stop telling me that !! Glad you have been able to assess these people so well and that you have been tested and shown not to have had Corona.. Also you then go on to describe flu symptoms!! It is odd that suddenly (before they'd heard of Corona) decided that they had something that they never described as flu, had never had the like of before. Why wouldn't they have said I think I had flu? And and as I recall I never got a cough before at the beginning of a cold before the sore throat, the runny nose , the sneezing, none of which they had anyway. If you look at the official table for the difference between flu, a cold and Corona there is some overlap but the main ones are clear. Again, without suggesting this was Corvid they were more of that nature than the others listed. That is evidence.. (remember everyone is always keen to say their cold is flu) This was a terrible dry cough, a short fever, nothing else. No stomach problems, sickness shakes. Not flu, not a cold and probably not Corvid-19. I'm trying to establish if anybody has any factual information, based on research preferably, to what this was! It is interesting, nothing more.


Clearly nobody has heard of anything so I will move on.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Gooner
04 April 2020 19:38:36


 


If we shield the most vulnerable, which is what we should do, that might not be the case.


Sweden will be an interesting case study.


However, if we had acted promptly - cancelling flights to and from infected regions, cancelling people's half-term breaks in the Alps or Spanish resorts, plus port screening combined with testing, quarantine and contact tracing for all suspected cases, that would have been far less costly to the economy than what is now being imposed.


So again, use the coming week to keep the lockdown, ensure the vulnerable are properly shielded and then relax - this lockdown cannot be kept in place indefinitely and with warmer weather coming, perhaps the strain on the health service could be manageable, since the vast majority of younger people without underlying conditions do come through an infection without requiring hospitalisation.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


And what do you class as the most vulnerable , it seems we all are , doesn't it .


 


As I posted earlier I had Pneumonia many months back  and there is a history of heart problems in the family , I could well be one who passes away but had " underlying problems " …………...no thanks


That's a dangerous game you are calling to be introduced   


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


speckledjim
04 April 2020 19:50:11


 


Darren - how many times to I have to say I'm not saying it is Corona virus before you stop telling me that !! Glad you have been able to assess these people so well and that you have been tested and shown not to have had Corona.. Also you then go on to describe flu symptoms!! It is odd that suddenly (before they'd heard of Corona) decided that they had something that they never described as flu, had never had the like of before. Why wouldn't they have said I think I had flu? And and as I recall I never got a cough before at the beginning of a cold before the sore throat, the runny nose , the sneezing, none of which they had anyway. If you look at the official table for the difference between flu, a cold and Corona there is some overlap but the main ones are clear. Again, without suggesting this was Corvid they were more of that nature than the others listed. That is evidence.. (remember everyone is always keen to say their cold is flu) This was a terrible dry cough, a short fever, nothing else. No stomach problems, sickness shakes. Not flu, not a cold and probably not Corvid-19. I'm trying to establish if anybody has any factual information, based on research preferably, to what this was! It is interesting, nothing more.


Clearly nobody has heard of anything so I will move on.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


a dry cough and a fever are symptoms of flu so it sounds like you had the flu. You don’t need to have all the symptoms associated with flu.


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
Polar Low
04 April 2020 19:55:46

We don’t know for sure it was smoked over in January


 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51221915


 



 


a dry cough and a fever are symptoms of flu so it sounds like you had the flu. You don’t need to have all the symptoms associated with flu.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 

Gandalf The White
04 April 2020 20:12:21


 


a dry cough and a fever are symptoms of flu so it sounds like you had the flu. You don’t need to have all the symptoms associated with flu.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


To be fair, the list of symptoms of Covid-19 are pretty extensive and not dissimilar. But the guidance does say that the key ones are a dry cough and fever.


I've had flu three times and never had a dry cough with any of them.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


speckledjim
04 April 2020 20:18:50


 


To be fair, the list of symptoms of Covid-19 are pretty extensive and not dissimilar. But the guidance does say that the key ones are a dry cough and fever.


I've had flu three times and never had a dry cough with any of them.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Fair enough but a dry cough is a flu symptom. This is from NHS website


Flu symptoms come on very quickly and can include:



  • a sudden fever – a temperature of 38C or above

  • an aching body

  • feeling tired or exhausted

  • a dry cough

  • a sore throat

  • a headache

  • difficulty sleeping

  • loss of appetite

  • diarrhoea or tummy pain

  • feeling sick and being sick


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
Gandalf The White
04 April 2020 20:36:35


 


Fair enough but a dry cough is a flu symptom. This is from NHS website


Flu symptoms come on very quickly and can include:



  • a sudden fever – a temperature of 38C or above

  • an aching body

  • feeling tired or exhausted

  • a dry cough

  • a sore throat

  • a headache

  • difficulty sleeping

  • loss of appetite

  • diarrhoea or tummy pain

  • feeling sick and being sick


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


Yes, I know there's the potential for uncertainty given the significant overlap in the symptoms.


I think people looking for certainties are going to be disappointed for some considerable time.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Maunder Minimum
04 April 2020 21:39:57


 


Exactly, which has been the government policy since they realised that their ill-conceived 'Plan A' was a disaster in the making.


As I've said before, we need to get the cases down significantly to give the overstretched NHS staff a chance to recover, never mind relaxing the restrictions.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


You were Dr Pangloss in the early days when I was trying to raise the alarm. I never wanted us to end up here. But here we are and there are only bad options now.


 


New world order coming.
Gavin D
04 April 2020 21:40:12
Spain have reported 6,969 new cases and 749 new deaths

New cases down 165

New deaths down 101
CreweCold
04 April 2020 21:49:52


 


Darren - how many times to I have to say I'm not saying it is Corona virus before you stop telling me that !! Glad you have been able to assess these people so well and that you have been tested and shown not to have had Corona.. Also you then go on to describe flu symptoms!! It is odd that suddenly (before they'd heard of Corona) decided that they had something that they never described as flu, had never had the like of before. Why wouldn't they have said I think I had flu? And and as I recall I never got a cough before at the beginning of a cold before the sore throat, the runny nose , the sneezing, none of which they had anyway. If you look at the official table for the difference between flu, a cold and Corona there is some overlap but the main ones are clear. Again, without suggesting this was Corvid they were more of that nature than the others listed. That is evidence.. (remember everyone is always keen to say their cold is flu) This was a terrible dry cough, a short fever, nothing else. No stomach problems, sickness shakes. Not flu, not a cold and probably not Corvid-19. I'm trying to establish if anybody has any factual information, based on research preferably, to what this was! It is interesting, nothing more.


Clearly nobody has heard of anything so I will move on.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I'm with you here mate. I had it and it wasn't flu. 


I was able to go about my normal routine and wasn't bed bound but my chest sounded like a bag of spanners, struggled to breathe at times and the dry cough was something else.


If it wasn't a strain of COVID then it did a bloody good mimic.



Crewe, Cheshire
55 metres above sea level
Gandalf The White
04 April 2020 21:56:46


 


You were Dr Pangloss in the early days when I was trying to raise the alarm. I never wanted us to end up here. But here we are and there are only bad options now.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yes, and you were calling for nonsensical measures in the early days. 


Neither of us wanted to end up here but if you have learned anything from the global pandemic it should be that almost every country has struggled to contain the Covid-19 outbreak.


I hope you really don't want another round of exchanges about the issue of closing borders. 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
05 April 2020 04:04:08


We don’t know for sure it was smoked over in January


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51221915


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

From that article, dated 23rd January, we had already tested for suspected cases in the UK and were screening passengers coming from Hubei.  That was only three weeks after it had been identified in China!  


I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that Covid 19 was here some time before it was identified as such and were diagnosed as flu.  The Mail article that Darren posted, dated 19th December, shows that ‘flu’ cases were already well up in December, even more so in Wales, where we are currently seeing high numbers.


   “And the number of patients rushed into intensive care with the flu is three times higher than last winter. 


Public Health England (PHE) figures revealed there have been 540 people treated in ICU in 2019, compared to 169 a year ago.  The vast majority of people who catch the flu will recover within a couple of weeks. But vulnerable patients such as the elderly, young children or those with serious illnesses can become severely sick and die from complications such as pneumonia. 


As well as higher numbers of GP appointments, hospitals are now seeing greater numbers of people being diagnosed with flu. Cases of the flu virus in Wales almost trebled in the space of a week - rising from 232 to 690, according to PHE.”


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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