Brits have been told to avoid going abroad "indefinitely" after the Foreign Office changed its travel advice.

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Brits have been told to avoid going abroad "indefinitely" after the Foreign Office changed its travel advice.

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

If true, then it's incompetence on an industrial scale.

I know loyalists get sniffy when this government is criticised, but in this crisis, they've been miles behind at every turn in regards to their response (apart from Sunak's fiscal measures, which were bold and swiftly delivered).

Planning for 'phase 2' should gave been part of the overall strategy agreed weeks ago, with the resources & apparatus starting to be put in place from that moment. 

A comprehensive 'trace, test, isolate' programme takes huge effort, resources & coordination. It can't just be effectively created from scratch in a week or two. 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

If true, then it's incompetence on an industrial scale.

I know loyalists get sniffy when this government is criticised, but in this crisis, they've been miles behind at every turn in regards to their response (apart from Sunak's fiscal measures, which were bold and swiftly delivered).

Planning for 'phase 2' should gave been part of the overall strategy agreed weeks ago, with the resources & apparatus starting to be put in place from that moment. 

A comprehensive 'trace, test, isolate' programme takes huge effort, resources & coordination. It can't just be effectively created from scratch in a week or two. 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

On a personal level, my mate has pulled through. His high fever and persistent coughing lasted for 9 days, he says that night time was the worst as this is when he was finding it harder to breathe. He is a fit guy in his late 30s with no known conditions and he describes it as the worst experience of his life.

Interestingly, his pregnant wife also seems to have contracted it from him, but with much milder symptoms developing a few days later. She only got a slight fever and some  dry coughing for 4-5 days and she has now fully recovered. It's all anecdotal of course, but I think it shows again how the same virus can impact similar people in very different ways and we don't know why. It could be genetics, or exposure to different viral loads or the conditions of the lungs or something else.

On a slightly different note, I had my Ocado delivery on Saturday (almost everything was there except yeast). The driver seemed in a bit of a state so I asked him if he was alright and he said he was upset because he was 45mins early for the previous customer and when he phoned him, he said he couldn't make it back yet as he was at his parents. The driver then burst into tears as he told me that his mother is in intensive care with CV19 and he just can't believe how selfish some people are.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

I think I'm going to have to reschedule our trip to Spain in early July, but this isn't a major issue as we can go in October becauseit'sa long weekendto visit friends (who are back in the UK indefinitely anyway). 

It's losing the main holiday in Vendee in July/August that's p*ssing me off most, though.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

There are some left-wing people on Twitter who have lost their moral compass whilst retaining the ability to type a few words.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Searched on Twitter for “Boris Johnson” and this was literally the second result. 

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1247023000005808135?s=21

That’s one of the gentler ones. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

 That may well have happened, but as I say there may well be reasons to not reveal the strategy before everything has been finalized. It may also be a messaging thing. Talking about phasing out of lockdown may send the wrong message at a time we need the lockdown to be rock solid. I'm not defending the govt, though, just offering a possible reason for it. My biggest contention with the govt (although this applies more widely to the western world) is a lack of preparation and imagination particularly in that January - Early March period.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's hardly any foreign holidays this year. We normally have two - the second being Sept/Oct time but I'm prepared to have to wait until 2021 now if I have to.

That sounds like there are at least three of us on TWO who were originally expecting to go to Spain this year.

Originally Posted by: westv 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's hardly any foreign holidays this year. We normally have two - the second being Sept/Oct time but I'm prepared to have to wait until 2021 now if I have to.

That sounds like there are at least three of us on TWO who were originally expecting to go to Spain this year.

Originally Posted by: westv 

It's less about talking about it and more about starting to organise it now as in about a month's time the number of new infections should have come down significantly. It's a big effort and it requires a lot of resources and planning.

Unfortunately the govt (like many in Europe) have made many mistakes and they are still playing catch up. What has already happened is less important though and they need to get it right now. The opposition should also put pressure on them.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

 Does the opposition have its own scientific advisors with a different perspective? Perhaps getting the scientific community together isn't a bad idea, but we need to make sure we are getting genuine experts. Disagreement is fine, but just because you have a PhD doesn't make you an expert. I'm reminded of that letter critisizing the govt strategy which was filled with PhD students in completely disparate fields. We need to avoid that kind of thing.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

We are all experts now.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Does the opposition have its own scientific advisors with a different perspective? Perhaps getting the scientific community together isn't a bad idea, but we need to make sure we are getting genuine experts. Disagreement is fine, but just because you have a PhD doesn't make you an expert. I'm reminded of that letter critisizing the govt strategy which was filled with PhD students in completely disparate fields. We need to avoid that kind of thing.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

It's fairly clear now that the lockdowns are working with Italy and  Spain slowly turning this around and we should follow in about 2 weeks. I think our peak in terms of daily deaths will probably be next week and could easily be close to that of Italy & Spain.

However if we and most other countries don't prepare a proper test, trace and isolate regime, then we'll either get into a vicious lock & release cycle or a much prolonged lockdown with a much bigger impact on the economy. We really need to be ready to this when the number of new infections comes down, many Asian countries have demonstrated its success.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

This is very likely a 'hindsight thing' but it seems a huge mistake by the government to have leant heavily towards the modelling expert in their composition of the emergency committee. Modelling should of course play a contributing role, but in this case the medical response (and its ability to cope) and the impacts on real society should have led this, rather than theoretical and algorithmic models. 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

 This is very likely a 'hindsight thing' but it seems a huge mistake by the government to have leant heavily towards the modelling expert in their composition of the emergency committee. Modelling should of course play a contributing role, but in this case the medical response (and its ability to cope) and the impacts on real society should have led this, rather than theoretical and algorithmic models. 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's hardly any foreign holidays this year. We normally have two - the second being Sept/Oct time but I'm prepared to have to wait until 2021 now if I have to.

That sounds like there are at least three of us on TWO who were originally expecting to go to Spain this year.

Originally Posted by: westv 

You are far from alone, many of my friends are like this, even though some hesitate to admit it as somehow they feel like they need to conform into the new normal state of doom and gloom.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

My mum and dad (and a few of their friends) are scheduled to go to Italy in early October. They're expecting that to be cancelled now.

Originally Posted by: Bolty 

Yes, It does appear the lockdowns are working!  I think there will probably have to be some sort of lock and release to allow a steady flow of cases into hospitals.  It doesn’t look like testing will be any time soon and even when it is, it will take a long time for it to be carried out. 

I’m pleased to hear your friend is making a recovery!  

Originally Posted by: Caz 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's hardly any foreign holidays this year. We normally have two - the second being Sept/Oct time but I'm prepared to have to wait until 2021 now if I have to.

That sounds like there are at least three of us on TWO who were originally expecting to go to Spain this year.

Originally Posted by: westv 

Even something like masks has so much disagreement amongst the scientific community.

Pros:

Reduces droplet transmission into the environment

Protects the user from inhaling large droplets and obtaining a more dangerous high viral load

Is known to reduce R0 when worn by the community on a widespread level

Cons:

Depletes PPE supplies for health workers and encourages dangerous stockpiling

Promotes a sense of complacency and makes people less likely to abide by social distancing measures

Protection is not full proof and is very inadequate if masks are worn incorrectly which, for the general public, they almost always are. Fomite tranmission can actually be more likely due to improper mask usage.

Do the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa? Well the experts in the field have not reached a consensus on this point. And I suspect this is far from the only thing where a consensus has not been reached.

Originally Posted by: Quantum