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John p
08 April 2020 13:05:50


From the Telegraph:



'Allow young people out of lockdown early to get country moving'





Allowing young people aged between 20 and 30 out of lockdown early could help get Britain moving again and avoid an "extraordinary recession", business experts have said.


As the Government's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, told the daily press conference that the epidemic curve appeared to be "flattening off", speculation is growing as to how the UK can escape from its lockdown.


Researchers at the University of Warwick calculated that allowing 4.2 million young adults to resume their daily lives would boost the economy by £13 billion, while shielding more vulnerable age groups.


Older adults could then be allowed out of lockdown later, through a strategy of staged release using antibody testing to identify those who had already recovered from coronavirus.


Our Science Editor, Sarah Knapton has the full story here. She's also answering all your coronavirus questions in today's lunchtime Q&A.






Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


What about businesses where half the workforce are above age 30?  They still wouldn’t be able to function.


I speak as a graduate from Warwick, but these academic research groups are frankly speaking a load of bollocks regarding this pandemic.


Camberley, Surrey
Gandalf The White
08 April 2020 13:15:25


 


Hopefully there will be partial lifting before then. Allow shops to open with social distancing for example


Jeremy C+nt and Handjob are only looking at the medical side


Hopefully the economists in the Cabinet will carry the day. The cure can never be worse than the illness. Economic depression and actual depression will kill many more than Corona


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


How can anything be worse than a painful death?


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
08 April 2020 13:16:50


 


Revolting 


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Pavlov without the dog....


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Heavy Weather 2013
08 April 2020 13:18:41
BREAKING:

A total of 936 new deaths in the UK:

England: 828
Scotland: 70
NI: 5
Wales: 33

Just devastating.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gandalf The White
08 April 2020 13:24:50


 


100% agree Justin. I wasn’t convinced this morning. He is clearly still unwell. Nothing in that message suggests otherwise. They continue to say he is in good spirits. My view is when they keep repeating that line they are using as a holding and deflection statement.


Of course we are just doomsayers.


 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Surely he wouldn't be in an ICU unless he was very unwell and he wouldn't be receiving oxygen unless he was very unwell?


From other reports I've read and heard it's quite possible to be in ICU and be in good spirits. Isn't it a positive sign - unless you think they're telling lies?


Two days in ICU now, so we will know one way or the other within the next 48-72 hours whether his immune system is winning.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gavin D
08 April 2020 13:33:23

Another record breaker for the UK sadly with an additional 82 deaths on to yesterdays data.


covid.thumb.png.b081309ee6bd17bcd3f9d340a18d0cac.png

Gavin D
08 April 2020 13:37:41
The patients who died in England were aged between 22 and 103-years-old.



46 (6%) of the 828 had no known underlying health conditions.
speckledjim
08 April 2020 13:38:37

BREAKING:

A total of 936 new deaths in the UK:

England: 828
Scotland: 70
NI: 5
Wales: 33

Just devastating.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


A 15% increase which is the same as yesterday. The rate of increase is a lot lower than it was a week ago so that is a positive.


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
llamedos
08 April 2020 13:40:47


Another record breaker for the UK sadly with an additional 82 deaths on to yesterdays data.


covid.thumb.png.b081309ee6bd17bcd3f9d340a18d0cac.png


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Indeed and just a cursory glance at that graph suggests that 1000 barrier will be breached tomorrow. 


Edit: And if not, by the end of the week


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Sevendust
08 April 2020 13:41:33


 


A 15% increase which is the same as yesterday. The rate of increase is a lot lower than it was a week ago so that is a positive.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


Not easy to spin that but nice try

Retron
08 April 2020 13:42:09


Indeed and just a cursory glance at that graph suggests that 1000 barrier will be breached tomorrow. 


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


We've already overtaken Italy in terms of most deaths on a given day and if we do break 1000 (which you'd have to say is likely in the coming days) then we'll have overtaken Spain as well.


At least hopefully we're near the peak now.


Leysdown, north Kent
Gavin D
08 April 2020 13:42:30
The UK's announcement of 936 new deaths means we've now recorded more than Italy in the 24-hour updates they had a record of 919.

We're also very close to Spain's record of 961.
Justin W
08 April 2020 13:44:14


 


A 15% increase which is the same as yesterday. The rate of increase is a lot lower than it was a week ago so that is a positive.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


Hardly - we are about to have the worst mortality rate anywhere in the world outside the US. Not even you can spin that as a positive.


The percentage of increase is pretty irrelevant as the numbers rise. If you look at the CFR curve, you can see that we are not yet at the point of it starting to flatten.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
John p
08 April 2020 13:44:21


 


A 15% increase which is the same as yesterday. The rate of increase is a lot lower than it was a week ago so that is a positive.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


Number of deaths changed a couple of times yesterday in the media, but Dept of Health gave it as 786, so I make that a 19% increase.  


It’s increasingly difficult to compare apples with apples the way data is being released though!


Camberley, Surrey
speckledjim
08 April 2020 13:45:43


 


Not easy to spin that but nice try


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


maybe not but that’s the information the government will be looking at when thinking of easing the lockdown. 


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
John p
08 April 2020 13:45:57


 


Hardly - we are about to have the worst mortality rate anywhere in the world outside the US. Not even you can spin that as a positive.


The percentage of increase is pretty irrelevant as the numbers rise. If you look at the CFR curve, you can see that we are not yet at the point of it starting to flatten.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


And to think all people seem to want to talk about is ending the lockdown!


I think we should be tightening it further.


Camberley, Surrey
speckledjim
08 April 2020 13:47:09


 


Number of deaths changed a couple of times yesterday in the media, but Dept of Health gave it as 786, so I make that a 19% increase.  


It’s increasingly difficult to compare apples with apples the way data is being released though!


Originally Posted by: John p 


I get it from Wikipedia, not saying they’re any more accurate but at least it’s consistent 


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
Gavin D
08 April 2020 13:51:13

Regional breakdown for the deaths in England



  • London - 201

  • Midlands - 171

  • North West - 128

  • South East - 120

  • North East & Yorkshire - 101

  • East of England - 70

  • South West - 37

llamedos
08 April 2020 13:54:22


 


And to think all people seem to want to talk about is ending the lockdown!


 


Originally Posted by: John p 

Agreed. Right now we need to hope that the virus can be contained through diligence and that within a few days the number of casualties will start reducing rapidly. No time to even be considering a jolly, that's plain bloody selfish. By the end of this there will be thousands of families mourning the loss of their loved ones, who won't be in the mood for celebrating.


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
John p
08 April 2020 13:56:38


Regional breakdown for the deaths in England



  • London - 201

  • Midlands - 171

  • North West - 128

  • South East - 120

  • North East & Yorkshire - 101

  • East of England - 70

  • South West - 37


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Do we have a breakdown somewhere of the populations for each of those regions?


Camberley, Surrey
Gooner
08 April 2020 14:06:43


Agreed. Right now we need to hope that the virus can be contained through diligence and that within a few days the number of casualties will start reducing rapidly. No time to even be considering a jolly, that's plain bloody selfish. By the end of this there will be thousands of families mourning the loss of their loved ones, who won't be in the mood for celebrating.


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Totally agree


Sod rushing everything back to how it used to be, if it takes another 2 months before we consider relaxing the restrictions so be it


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gandalf The White
08 April 2020 14:09:37


Agreed. Right now we need to hope that the virus can be contained through diligence and that within a few days the number of casualties will start reducing rapidly. No time to even be considering a jolly, that's plain bloody selfish. By the end of this there will be thousands of families mourning the loss of their loved ones, who won't be in the mood for celebrating.


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Exactly. Awful numbers but deaths are a lagging indicator and tell us what we knew, which was the surge in the number of cases would lead, sadly, to more deaths. 


Whatever some may wish to push for, there is just one item on the agenda right now: curb the epidemic, curb hospital admissions, reduce pressure on ICUs, get the death toll down as fast as possible.


Personally I see nothing changing until May at the absolute earliest. 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


haggishunter
08 April 2020 14:28:03
We can not ignore the economic consequences though, because the more extreme these get the greater the damage that will be done to both physical and mental health going forward and there is plenty of evidence in various parts of Scotland as to how profound and long lasting the effects of severe economic dislocation can be.

I saw reports this morning that Scotland is facing an economic contraction of 25% - IIRC >10% over 2 or more quarters is often considered the definition of an economic depression. I wonder to what extent even that horrendous figure could be a significant under estimate for rural areas such as the Highlands and Islands?

I know a good number of people who move between seasonal jobs and they have basically fallen through all of the government's proposed safety nets so far, this won't just be an issue in rural Scotland but in various parts of the country with a big visitor based sector. The Scottish Ski Areas had a very poor start to the season, when the snow did come, storms practically wiped out February half term before the snow and weather was finally coming together in March only for them to have to close because of Coronavirus. They can't recover the lost time in the summer, its not at all clear all of them will be there next season either. There are many people in outdoor activities or various parts of the tourism sectors that would have started jobs this month that fall through the critera furlough scheme.

There will be a good number of businesses in the West Highlands that the peak walking season the West Highland Way is very important to and that will be wiped out entirely, its basically from Easter through to late June for by far the busiest period - the time you might call BM - Before Midges! Even if things start to open up in the summer, like the ski areas their most important period of the year once lost can't be reclaimed later in the year. There is also the issue of businesses struggling to hold on long enough to receive furlough grants to whom there is no chance of getting loans or overdrafts from a bank when they've just lost their main trading period and their future income is heavily dependent on things entirely outwith their control such as the Scottish weather!

There must be a lot of people and companies in various parts of the British Isles facing similar issues with the support schemes that have been setup. If ever there was a time for a basic income or guaranteed minimum income for every citizen it is now, at a time where people need help now simplicity is key and a basic income for all looks the simplest and fairest, no means testing, no questions - those that don't need it, well it will effectively be reclaimed through the tax system anyway.
Heavy Weather 2013
08 April 2020 14:30:38

We can not ignore the economic consequences though, because the more extreme these get the greater the damage that will be done to both physical and mental health going forward and there is plenty of evidence in various parts of Scotland as to how profound and long lasting the effects of severe economic dislocation can be.

I saw reports this morning that Scotland is facing an economic contraction of 25% - IIRC >10% over 2 or more quarters is often considered the definition of an economic depression. I wonder to what extent even that horrendous figure could be a significant under estimate for rural areas such as the Highlands and Islands?

I know a good number of people who move between seasonal jobs and they have basically fallen through all of the government's proposed safety nets so far, this won't just be an issue in rural Scotland but in various parts of the country with a big visitor based sector. The Scottish Ski Areas had a very poor start to the season, when the snow did come, storms practically wiped out February half term before the snow and weather was finally coming together in March only for them to have to close because of Coronavirus. They can't recover the lost time in the summer, its not at all clear all of them will be there next season either. There are many people in outdoor activities or various parts of the tourism sectors that would have started jobs this month that fall through the critera furlough scheme.

There will be a good number of businesses in the West Highlands that the peak walking season the West Highland Way is very important to and that will be wiped out entirely, its basically from Easter through to late June for by far the busiest period - the time you might call BM - Before Midges! Even if things start to open up in the summer, like the ski areas their most important period of the year once lost can't be reclaimed later in the year. There is also the issue of businesses struggling to hold on long enough to receive furlough grants to whom there is no chance of getting loans or overdrafts from a bank when they've just lost their main trading period and their future income is heavily dependent on things entirely outwith their control such as the Scottish weather!

There must be a lot of people and companies in various parts of the British Isles facing similar issues with the support schemes that have been setup. If ever there was a time for a basic income or guaranteed minimum income for every citizen it is now, at a time where people need help now simplicity is key and a basic income for all looks the simplest and fairest, no means testing, no questions - those that don't need it, well it will effectively be reclaimed through the tax system anyway.

Originally Posted by: haggishunter 


We can’t also ignore the 1000s of deaths at peak that are coming. Ease the lockdown and deaths will remain high. Even though people are optimistic about Spain/Italy. They are still getting daily infection rates into the 3000/4000. That’s still a lot of deaths to wash through. 


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Rob K
08 April 2020 14:35:30
I agree that focusing on the daily death toll is not a good idea. A better measure would be the weekly total death numbers from all causes and how they compare with the long-term average. The true impact will only become clear in a few months’ time.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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