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Gandalf The White
14 April 2020 14:29:50


 


 


The retired have benefited from a massive wealth bonanza from the rise in property prices over the past 20-30 years, largely a result of persistently low interest rates.


Many/most of those already retired will have a final salary pension (or majority FS pension), as the forced move of employees onto money-purchase from FS schemes only really started in the 00's.


Compared to other current demographics, those who retired up to around 2010 have enjoyed a huge amount of financial luck compared to those who came after - especially those who only got onto the property ladder after or during the last house price boom (and will almost certainly have been denied a FS pension)


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Rising property prices don’t help unless you’re prepared to trade down or move to a cheaper area: many are not.


Let’s not continue this here; we are way off topic and we have disagreed on this before. As someone who was paying 15%pa interest at one stage I have limited sympathy.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Saint Snow
14 April 2020 14:30:21


Apparently 20 phone masts were attacked over the weekend. Presumably these people also think the earth is flat and the moon landings never happened.


Originally Posted by: westv 


 


And in religious nonsense.



 


 


I hope Eamonn Holmes is sacked and we never have to see his podgy, smug face on our screens again. What an absolute tool.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gandalf The White
14 April 2020 14:31:35


 


This was explained very well by the Horizon documentary with graphics. Worth catching up on iplayer


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Yes, I watched it - but they didn’t specify the factor by which SARS-Cov2 was more effective in penetrating the cell.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


The Beast from the East
14 April 2020 14:31:54


Apparently 20 phone masts were attacked over the weekend. Presumably these people also think the earth is flat and the moon landings never happened.


Originally Posted by: westv 


They are more likely to be the same sort of chavs who attacked a paediatrician, mistaking him for a paedophile during the Sarah Payne murder 


They were radicalised by the Sun, but now Facebook has taken over


 


Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
Gandalf The White
14 April 2020 14:32:50


 


 


And in religious nonsense.



 


 


I hope Eamonn Holmes is sacked and we never have to see his podgy, smug face on our screens again. What an absolute tool.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 




Agreed; I really don’t like him and that episode was shockingly dumb and ill-advises.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
14 April 2020 14:33:15


Apparently 20 phone masts were attacked over the weekend. Presumably these people also think the earth is flat and the moon landings never happened.


Originally Posted by: westv 


xkcd on this https://xkcd.com/258/ 


David Icke has of course been cashing in on this for years and is now wandering round saying "I told you so" to anyone who will listen. I'm not sure if he's cynical and smart, deluded or unwell https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52198946


--
Paul.
Saint Snow
14 April 2020 14:33:18


 


Rising property prices don’t help unless you’re prepared to trade down or move to a cheaper area: many are not.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


That's their decision, but we shouldn't have sympathy for someone who, through doing no work, is sitting on an asset that over the past 30-40 years has appreciated 200%+, but refuses to cash it in.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 April 2020 14:33:43


I have never read this from a German source, its more likely to be hearsay in the UK. 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Yes, probably.  There was a report being discussed on here some time ago but was no doubt a media article without substance. There have been so many of these it’s difficult to keep track of what’s real and what’s fabricated. 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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llamedos
14 April 2020 14:39:02


 


Pointing out Govt failures is not "politically motivated", its called living in a free democratic country!


I know you don't like it when the Tories are criticised, but can you honestly say you would intervene if someone said the same about a Corbyn Govt?


I somehow doubt it!


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I really shouldn't reply, but I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Funnily enough you're the only one who has criticised my response. 


But then of course you always want to take things to the limit right now


Do everyone a favour and stop rubbishing this and subsequent threads with your inane posts


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
14 April 2020 14:56:01


I realise the following is a generalisation but it is basked on experience(s). There is a good chance that many very elderly people and those with life-shortening conditions do not want to be rushed off to ICU to be hooked up to machines and mechanically ventilated for something that may prolong their life for weeks or months and would rather die with dignity at “home”. I realise that is highly unlikely to account for all the cases but may account for a significant number?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 

  My mum at 80, had terminal cancer and refused treatment as she didn’t want to be kept ‘hanging on’ and she wanted to die at home. Also, many in care homes will have signed DNR’s.


I am wondering how how care home deaths are being confirmed as Covid deaths if they’re not being tested in care homes.  If they were confirmed by autopsy, the County coroners would have to include them in their Covid reports. 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
JHutch
14 April 2020 15:13:37


I really shouldn't reply, but I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Funnily enough you're the only one who has criticised my response. 


But then of course you always want to take things to the limit right now


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Thought your daft response spoke for itself really.

fairweather
14 April 2020 15:17:07


 


You only have to look at how the UK state pension compares with much of the rest of Western Europe.


 


The last section of that article is the best -


 


"But pension experts warned that pensioner incomes will start falling within the next decade, even with the triple lock. David Sinclair of the International Longevity Centre, said “While it is right to debate cuts to pensioner benefits, we must take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. This debate cannot be about young versus old.”


Tom McPhail, of advisers Hargreaves Lansdown, said: “Politicians are chronically compromised when making any policy decisions [that] might be detrimental to older citizens. You only have to look at the turnout in general elections to understand why: 78% of the over-65s voted, compared to just 43% of the eligible under-25s.


“The triple lock has served an important function in bringing pensioner incomes back into line with the rest of the population. It is also important to recognise that pensioner incomes will change again in the future, we are about to hit ‘peak DB’ after which successive pensioners will be increasingly reliant on the state pension and on defined contribution arrangements. Any measure to curb either of these in the next few years could rapidly push more pensioners back into poverty.”


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


Why does every group have to be generic?  I can assure you that somebody paying rent or a mortgage with just a State pension will be just about above the poverty line. On the other hand somebody like me who paid 6% of their salary into a final salary pension scheme for 40 years is a lot more comfortable, especially if you have paid off your mortgage. There will be those, as with the work force in general in a sliding range between two extremes. The only way you could do it would be to means test it. But then how fair would that be on somebody like me that paid a high proportion towards a pension and struggled more through the early and middle years deliberately to be comfortable and not a burden to others in later years? The builder opposite has a 5 bedroom detached house, three cars, belongs to an expensive golf club but is still working because he has no pension! It isn't simple.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
westv
14 April 2020 15:25:40
Can someone please create a pensions thread!
At least it will be mild!
Brian Gaze
14 April 2020 15:25:50

11,879 tests to 9am

5,252 positive including key workers

Confirmed rate is 44.21%


Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


Positives higher (both absolute and percentage) than I was expecting given how far into the lockdown we are. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
llamedos
14 April 2020 15:31:26


 


Thought your daft response spoke for itself really.


Originally Posted by: JHutch 

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. 


 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Hippydave
14 April 2020 15:33:15


 


Positives higher (both absolute and percentage) than I was expecting given how far into the lockdown we are. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I get a bit lost with all the stats, probably not helped by the way the media reports them, but I think testing is heavily biased towards those in the NHS and people coming in with symptoms (or already in hospital with something else and showing symptoms) so it's not surprising that a comparatively high rate of positives is shown. If there was more general testing this would IMO reduce, as would the percentage of deaths to confirmed cases. 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
fairweather
14 April 2020 15:35:10


 


Well, 1 in 5 pensioners are millionaires and no, they don't all live in big houses in the SE (or smaller houses in London!)


Those who are millionaires could easily manage without an extra few hundred pounds a year.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


They could if they released equity from their house they scrimped and saved to buy for £1200 in the early 60's in run down East London which by no fault of their own has now escalated in value to £3/4 million pounds in value. Yes you could make them sell it and put them in a home for £1500 a week and they would start as millionaires.


Almost all of my friends are now pensioners. Most have a house with an average value of around £400,00 (in expensive commuter belt Essex). Most have some savings which are slowly eroding, by having a car and a decent life style including a holiday every year. None of them have assets worth anywhere near a million pounds. Most expect to lose most of what they do have paying for care at £2500 per week for two of them and just hope that there is some left to give their children who won't have the same level of pension when they are older. A lot like me give any excess to charities to pay for the government shortcomings in caring for the homeless, the blind and so on and so on. Nothing is as simple as it appears in a report.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Brian Gaze
14 April 2020 15:37:52


 


I get a bit lost with all the stats, probably not helped by the way the media reports them, but I think testing is heavily biased towards those in the NHS and people coming in with symptoms (or already in hospital with something else and showing symptoms) so it's not surprising that a comparatively high rate of positives is shown. If there was more general testing this would IMO reduce, as would the percentage of deaths to confirmed cases. 


Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


Yes but I think the percentage is higher than recent days. I think there was a view we'd not record 5000 positives in a day again unless testing was ramped up. In fact it appears we've tested fewer people. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Justin W
14 April 2020 15:42:50


 


Positives higher (both absolute and percentage) than I was expecting given how far into the lockdown we are. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


We are very nearly halfway through the month and the number of tests needs to increase ninefold if HMG is to hit its end of April target.


Farce.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
fairweather
14 April 2020 15:49:14


 


 


The retired have benefited from a massive wealth bonanza from the rise in property prices over the past 20-30 years, largely a result of persistently low interest rates.


Many/most of those already retired will have a final salary pension (or majority FS pension), as the forced move of employees onto money-purchase from FS schemes only really started in the 00's.


Compared to other current demographics, those who retired up to around 2010 have enjoyed a huge amount of financial luck compared to those who came after - especially those who only got onto the property ladder after or during the last house price boom (and will almost certainly have been denied a FS pension)


 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


This is largely true but it would be quite nice to think that a decent society would be pleased about that and find a route to make it the same for future generations rather than the current strategy of the government and an underlying theme which seems to be motivated by envy and let's punish the lucky old b&st*rds !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Heavy Weather 2013
14 April 2020 15:50:14


 


We are very nearly halfway through the month and the number of tests needs to increase ninefold if HMG is to hit its end of April target.


Farce.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Agreed, I think in that same commitment mid April was touted as 25K a day. That looks like being missed as well 


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gandalf The White
14 April 2020 15:51:08


 


 


That's their decision, but we shouldn't have sympathy for someone who, through doing no work, is sitting on an asset that over the past 30-40 years has appreciated 200%+, but refuses to cash it in.


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


New thread required. 


You might like to ponder the logic of blaming the property shortage on those sitting on a gain from their residential property.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


fairweather
14 April 2020 16:01:05

I think the peak deaths has more or less been reached. I anticipate a steady fall with blips over the next two weeks. When new infections are reliably low enough I expect the lock down to return to lock down lite that we started off with for the elderly and vulnerable. It will then be expected to start to rise again at some point. I believe there will be a lag though. This time there will be sufficient testing to predict when the exponential phase is about to restart. Then we have lockdown 2. As we start this before the exponential rise, unlike first time when we waited till half way up the peak, the peak deaths will be lower before they level. There will also have been more self imposed social distancing going on compared to before. Then rinse and repeat with subsequent peaks getting lower or at least remaining at a manageable level from the NHS point of view. Only one of many theories of course but I can't see any other way until we get herd immunity (which will be building and should help lower the peaks anyway) until there is a vaccine.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Heavy Weather 2013
14 April 2020 16:06:36
Does anyone think these briefings are becoming more about patting themselves on the back for a job badly done?
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gavin D
14 April 2020 16:07:02
19,706 in hospital with Covid-19 down fromĀ 20,185 yesterday

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