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The Beast from the East
29 April 2020 09:42:47


 


Not to mention the ones who never made full term


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


 


Johnson is like the kid we all knew at school who gets away with everything


Catching Covid has given him immunity to criticism 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Saint Snow
29 April 2020 09:44:57

Victoria Derbyshire
"Just been announced Boris and partner have a baby son".

Extraordinary news, she said.
Really, I thought he was a human being Vicky!

Originally Posted by: Phil G 


 




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Brian Gaze
29 April 2020 09:45:55


 


The Telegraph's had a load of moaning landlords in its finance pages recently - the one today: "I own 25 houses and I'm losing £4K/month, woe is me". (I suspect he doesn't actually own them, rather the bank does. If he did actually own them, sell one and job's done!)


These landlords invariably hoover up the cheap, low-end houses to rent out. There are lots on Sheppey, they buy up the 2-up, 2-down terraces and either rent them out entire or split them into two miniscule flats. The end result is the £140K starter homes aren't available to people who want to get on the ladder - which isn't good.


If those landlords continue to have difficulties they'll have to sell off some stock which should, in theory, mean newcomers to the ladder should find more affordable houses on offer.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


I have no sympathy at all for the type of landlord you mention. At the moment the rent on my property continues to be paid by the tenants. If they start having problems and are unable to pay I have built up a big enough financial buffer to keep going for a long time. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Phil G
29 April 2020 09:47:15


 


UK wide, not quite.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/global-financial-crisis-lehman-brothers-property-house-prices-uk-housing-market-a8538176.html



"The average UK property’s value plunged by 20 per cent over 16 months, while transaction levels slumped from 1.65 million in the decade up to the crisis to 730,000 in the year to June 2009. It took six years for prices to return to pre-crash levels"


Originally Posted by: westv 


I hold my hands up. I saw the movement down which in time scales was pretty short lived, but prices remained flat thereafter for a number of years. It was as you say 🙂

The Beast from the East
29 April 2020 09:50:20


It will be a worrying time for the care home sector, in terms of economic viability. 


Once they were a bit of a cash cow for investors. There was a private home sector catering chiefly for mostly comfortable-off pensioners, alongside a massive public sector provision.


From the early 90s onwards, there was a programme of this public provision being privatised as councils were pressured (by restrictive central funding) into outsourcing. It started slowly, but built quickly in the 00s. By 2010, a clear majority were in private hands.


By 2019, only 3% of care home beds were provided by LAs, with the private sector providing 84% (the remainder by the voluntary sector).


The reasons were simple. Local authority homes employed permanent staff on nationally-agreed pay scales, with the same T&Cs and pension and holidays and sick leave, etc as other local authority staff. It was a decently-paid and secure vocation for those working there.


By outsourcing, the private providers would have freedom to decide their own pay rates and T&Cs. The result has been a downward shift in pay and T&Cs, the proliferation of temporary contracts and agency workers, and the steady increase of foreign workers.


Local authorities would assess the finances of those entering care homes and pay for all or part of the care when financial criteria were met. The rates paid to care homes were set. For those with too great an income or assets, they had to pay full whack to the provider. 


Big profits were made by the sector, and the involvement of private equity (around 15-20% of beds are with PE-owned providers) helped drive this.


But problems started post-2010 when local authority budgets began to be slashed by central government. Councils drew in the purse strings and found ways to reduce what they paid private providers.


Some gave gone bust, including a few big players, and the residents have had to endure declining levels of care quality as staff numbers were cut and staff turnover led to under-experience and demotivated carers.


Brexit was already going to be a cliff edge, losing a high proportion of staff as they are unwanted, dirty foreigners.


But the impact on care home residents of this coronavirus pandemic - and the scandal is still emerging; when the smoke eventually clears, there's going to be serious implications and allegations - is going to hit private sector providers in two ways. Firstly, they are losing 'existing customers' as they are dying by the thousand. Secondly, there's going to be a reticence to go into these homes in case there's further 'waves' that kill more thousands (whilst the government seems to shrug its shoulders as they build PR stunt temporary hospitals).


I can a whole new approach being needed for how we care for our elderly. 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Another great post Saint


Social care has been one of those festering sores that the Govt and mainstream media have kept ignoring for years. Now the crisis has exploded and the fallout is going to be brutal


To be fair to May, she did come up with some proposals at the 2017 election which seemed promising - so called dementia tax, but was forced to scrap these as her own party base and Daily Mail revolted against it


One of my pub regulars owns a care home that he was in the process of selling when this crisis hit. He wants to retire in Portugal and he got a good price for the land from a property developer. Those residents (the ones still alive) will have to be moved somewhere. Most of them are paid for by the Council, not private. But where will they go if private homes are disappearing?


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Saint Snow
29 April 2020 09:55:50

I think, at least for the Chichester area, you should be directing your fire at the property developers who are hooked on providing 4-bedroom houses with nice gardens, with prices way out of reach of new entrants to the property market,


Originally Posted by: DEW 


 


NuLabour introduced a law stipulating the number of houses per [acre/hectare/whatever] that needed to be fit onto anything other than very small developments. Most developers would therefore include some small townhouse or even apartment builds. But that, argued house builders, suppressed the prices they could charge for their 4- and 5-bedroom 'executive' houses, as who in their right mind wants plebs in 2-bed hovels on their doorstep?


They successfully lobbied the Tories (house builders are amongst the biggest and most loyal Tory Party donors going back years... they need some bang for their buck after all) and soon after the 2010 GE, the legal requirements were quickly dropped. And I also remember that fat c**t Pickles gleefully announcing a free-for-all to build on greenbelt land.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Brian Gaze
29 April 2020 09:57:11


 


There needs to be a well considered approach to easing the lockdown, but eased it must be.


None of us is immortal even though we might wish it otherwise. The elderly and the frail were always those most at risk from this pandemic, especially those grouped together in care homes. But we cannot ruin the life chances for the young generation via an interminable lockdown on behalf of the generation passing on. However, with more extensive testing, particularly of care home staff, perhaps the risks can be mitigated.


If it were up to me, I would allow shops and garden centres to open from the weekend, but with social distancing measures put in place and face masks (of some description - home made preferably) mandated when in store.


Pubs and cafes are a different matter - in good weather, I see no reason why people should be prevented from enjoying a beer outside, but unless an establishment is big enough to enforce social distancing indoors (and most are not), there is an issue.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


To get to the stage you outline I would first want the following:


1) Randomised antigen and antibody tests to get more information on the situation in the UK. I believe Whitty said antibody tests are now good enough to provide a range shot. Well let's do a 50,000 random sample using both types of test.


2) The contact tracing app needs to be available and proven to work. I include factors such as its scalability, e.g. if 25 million installs how long does it take to send push notifications? If it takes a day then its value is diminished.  As there is no centralised database the only one I see to reduce the number of pns is by utilising location services. That could be very crude and not as effective.


3) The contact tracing teams need to trained and tested themselves. Part of it would mean generating dummy data (perhaps 4,000 infections with 30 contacts each, but partly dependent on what point 1 shows) seeing how they get on with it


Doing all of the above would improve my confidence in the ability of the UK to successfully run contact tracing at the levels required.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
fairweather
29 April 2020 09:57:37


 


Cant disagree with any of this


I'm worried about Boris though. He seems half the man he was and has been got at by the medical lobby. Sunak is pushing the other way and hopefully he will win the argument 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Out of interest - how old are you and Maunder? 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
llamedos
29 April 2020 09:59:28


 


 


Johnson is like the kid we all knew at school who gets away with everything


Catching Covid has given him immunity to criticism 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

A bit like you.


All the tittle tattle about BJ may be true, but I fail to see it's relevance in this thread, unless I'm missing something.


I know you often find it difficult, but do try to stay on topic please.


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Retron
29 April 2020 10:00:32


 


In my view, the Government needs to push a healthy living strategy hard - proper diet, exercise and keeping BMI at reasonable levels. This can be pushed in schools too, with mandatory "wellness" lessons, including dietary advice and exercise.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


We already have forced exercise in schools, it's called PE and games. My experience of it was enough to put me off any form of exercise for life, it was utterly awful (between being bullied because I didn't know the rules of football, being called gay and a poof because I'm crap at sports in general, between teachers making you run until you're out of breath, or through the snow in plimsolls and a t-shirt in the name of cross-country... utter rubbish.


Swimming lessons were just as bad... those of us deemed useless were left in the toddler pool, while those who could swim were given all the attention. I still can't swim even today, I've no motivation whatsoever to learn either.


I'm sure I'm not the only one who was put off so badly by their various schools!).


At least at school these days the teachers actually seem to care more and - shock horror - actually teach and explain techniques etc, rather than just tossing a football at you and doing next to nothing for the hour.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
29 April 2020 10:02:02


 


Yes it’s a factor that will have consequences I doubt any of us can forecast accurately. I’m no expert but I assume that the knock on effects as GTW and others with a far greater understanding of the issues clarify in more detail.


I was though surprised to read an article not so long ago (can’t find the link) from three or four travel journalists who truly believe that things will soon return to normal. They were writing about some of the exotic places they will visit when this crisis is over which they assume will be sometime in this summer.


They had no idea or made any mention about mothballing the machines that take them to these places and maybe thought all it needs is to fill up the plane with fuel, start the engine and off you go.


Although this is more for business jets owners I think the same applies to any kind of aircraft. https://www.bjtonline.com/business-jet-news/mothballing-your-airplane


I for one would be hesitant to travel on one of the ‘taken out of mothballed aircraft’ from a budget airline in case someone had cut a few too many corners in restoring it to airworthy condition. 


One other part of the leisure industry is of course the cruise liner industry. I can’t see that continuing in it’s previous form. Many people fly to the departure point and if there are fewer flights I can’t see the financial viability of the ships remaining. Maybe I’m naive but we are in uncharted waters and the fog is still too thick to see what is ahead. My local parish council still think it will soon be back to normal but who is to say who is right?


Yes where is Boris?


Originally Posted by: NMA 

I’m itching to get away on holiday again but I’ve wondered about mothballed planes and don’t feel comfortable with those thoughts!  


I think some of the cruise companies will be OK with regards to people flying to their embarkation ports.  The one we were on earlier in the year flew their own passengers out, with planes only carrying cruise passengers.  There were three plane load arrivals at each of two different ports.


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
29 April 2020 10:02:42


Restrictions are being lifted slowly with sale of dairy cattle at Frome Market  this week returning afer a few weeks of no sales. Still a bit unclear about it but sounds like just one person from each Family/business allowed in the ring.


Originally Posted by: bledur 


Livestock markets haven't been affected here except sellers and specatators not allowed inside, typically the number of serious buyers is quite small and they space themselves out round the ring.
Some layouts may not be as conducive to this arrangement.


xioni2
29 April 2020 10:03:12


By outsourcing, the private providers would have freedom to decide their own pay rates and T&Cs. The result has been a downward shift in pay and T&Cs, the proliferation of temporary contracts and agency workers, and the steady increase of foreign workers.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I read that more than half of care home workers wouldn't be paid if they had to self isolate; this is awful and an indictment of our whole approach to elderly care.


I agree with almost everything in your post. Despite timely warnings from the chief scientific advisor, I think the govt ignored the care sector until it was too late and it even helped bringing the virus into many care homes:



  • No testing

  • No help with PPE

  • The govt insisting care homes to accept back hospital patients without testing them 


As with other issues, I hope this disaster becomes an opportunity for a rethink and major reform, but I am not optimistic.

fairweather
29 April 2020 10:05:18


 


Gets your mind thinking Lionel with the numbers you mention, how on earth can we let anything like the numbers arriving at our airports resume. It's like we need to have a limit on numbers arriving, and these people dealt with and processed properly not to allow more spread.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


You mean processed like you and I have been to make sure we are not carrying it and spreading it? Doubt they'll be flocking here from NZ and Australia. At the moment most visitors to our Country will be diluting the number infected! But seriously, once the numbers are low and infection controlled all Countries will need to have checks on visitors for some time to come.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
westv
29 April 2020 10:05:57


 


I hold my hands up. I saw the movement down which in time scales was pretty short lived, but prices remained flat thereafter for a number of years. It was as you say 🙂


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Going further back brings back memories of buying a (small) 4 bed detached house in Wickford in 1998 for £124k and around the same time seeing 3 bed houses for sale in the local paper in Basildon for around £65k.


At least it will be mild!
fairweather
29 April 2020 10:07:07


 


The Telegraph's had a load of moaning landlords in its finance pages recently - the one today: "I own 25 houses and I'm losing £4K/month, woe is me". (I suspect he doesn't actually own them, rather the bank does. If he did actually own them, sell one and job's done!)


These landlords invariably hoover up the cheap, low-end houses to rent out. There are lots on Sheppey, they buy up the 2-up, 2-down terraces and either rent them out entire or split them into two miniscule flats. The end result is the £140K starter homes aren't available to people who want to get on the ladder - which isn't good.


If those landlords continue to have difficulties they'll have to sell off some stock which should, in theory, mean newcomers to the ladder should find more affordable houses on offer.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 

 Totally agree.


 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
29 April 2020 10:09:27


 


I really hope that happens Darren. They should restrict people to having 3 properties at the most as they are taking stock meant for first time buyers. I hate the words investment and property used in the same sentence. Homes should be for living in, not making easy money out of.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Absolutely 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
29 April 2020 10:14:57


From an article in The Times:


"


Boris Johnson was so badly affected by coronavirus because he is “significantly” overweight, a doctor said yesterday.


Aseem Malhotra, a cardiologist, said that risk of death from the disease increased ten-fold if the patient is obese.


...


“People with obesity also seem to spread the virus for a much longer period of time and also clearly get sicker. If you notice Chris Whitty, Matt Hancock and other members of the cabinet who got the virus, [they] did not get it as badly and they are essentially pretty slim.”


...


He explained that in Britain, more than half the population is classed as obese or overweight and that could be one reason the country had been hit so hard by the virus."


In my view, the Government needs to push a healthy living strategy hard - proper diet, exercise and keeping BMI at reasonable levels. This can be pushed in schools too, with mandatory "wellness" lessons, including dietary advice and exercise.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


This is true about Britain. Not sure if the link of 10x is proven at this stage.Picking just two slim people who are not really typical of the UK demograph isn't really a scientific way of proving your point either!


“People with obesity also seem to spread the virus for a much longer period of time and also clearly get sicker. If you notice Chris Whitty, Matt Hancock and other members of the cabinet who got the virus, [they] did not get it as badly and they are essentially pretty slim.”


S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
29 April 2020 10:16:57


 


Yep no finger pointing on this one!


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Nope, deffo looks like another one of his !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Phil G
29 April 2020 10:18:48


 


We already have forced exercise in schools, it's called PE and games. My experience of it was enough to put me off any form of exercise for life, it was utterly awful (between being bullied because I didn't know the rules of football, being called gay and a poof because I'm crap at sports in general, between teachers making you run until you're out of breath, or through the snow in plimsolls and a t-shirt in the name of cross-country... utter rubbish.


Swimming lessons were just as bad... those of us deemed useless were left in the toddler pool, while those who could swim were given all the attention. I still can't swim even today, I've no motivation whatsoever to learn either.


I'm sure I'm not the only one who was put off so badly by their various schools!).


At least at school these days the teachers actually seem to care more and - shock horror - actually teach and explain techniques etc, rather than just tossing a football at you and doing next to nothing for the hour.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Happy Days eh Darren! So so different in those days. If you had a problem, deal with it. If there was something that made you a little different from the crowd, other kids being what they were singled you out and ganged up on you and bullied you, deal with it. There was no one to confide in, it was just accepted. I must admit I was a little f****r and contributed to the bullying. It seemed if you did not join in you too attracted attention so the henchmen always had their right hand men. I was bullied for a short while until I got the leader on his backside and they never went near me again, respect!


Crap times when you look back but you hope the teacher's have more awareness nowadays. I can imagine the playgrounds are a jungle still.

fairweather
29 April 2020 10:19:12


 


IIRC Prince Charles also contracted the virus around the same time that Boris did, and yet he seemed to be OK after spending a week in self-isolation despite being some 15 years older than the PM. Prince Charles in pretty slim though, so that could lend some support to what you say above.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


It must be true, so far we have three slims, Hancock, Witty and Prince Charles vs Fatty Boris.


Typical cross section of society, not !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
ktaylor
29 April 2020 10:19:31

Don't know if it's on here maybe Boris wasn't there last night because in last few minutes it's been announced they're baby has been born. All doing well


Come on you spurs
Save ryarsh stop the quarry
https://www.ryarshprotectiongroup.com 
fairweather
29 April 2020 10:21:51


 


They could ban fast food ads for a start. They seem to be on every bus stand, McDonalds or KFC mostly.


Takeaways and chips shops are everywhere too and so cheap. Why would you pay £3 for a healthy wrap from Pret when you can get chicken and chips and a coke for the same price?


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Talking of ads, - have you noticed the number of bang up to date TV ads exploiting the situation, many emotionally, to sell their products and services.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Justin W
29 April 2020 10:23:15


 


I really hope that happens Darren. They should restrict people to having 3 properties at the most as they are taking stock meant for first time buyers. I hate the words investment and property used in the same sentence. Homes should be for living in, not making easy money out of.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Heaven forbid that people might actually use property as a pension fund. Heaven forbid that in order for there to be a private rental sector, people need to be able to make a profit from it. Heaven forbid that landlords should make any money at all.


My wife owns a house which she rents out. If the tenant decides not to pay rent for three months then there is no help for my wife for the lost income - she will just have to 'suck it up'. But that's fine.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
speckledjim
29 April 2020 10:32:34


 


It must be true, so far we have three slims, Hancock, Witty and Prince Charles vs Fatty Boris.


Typical cross section of society, not !


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


There have been many reports mentioning obesity as a significant factor in those that end up in ICUs. 


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip

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