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Quantum
22 January 2021 16:05:22

GFS12Z not quite as impressive but still an upgrade. 12Z:


Netweather GFS Image


Netweather GFS Image


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
22 January 2021 16:09:03


GFS has the same idea as the ICON, just takes the mild air a bit further north. Scotland still fully in the cold.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
22 January 2021 16:11:25

UKMO also on board. More impressive than the GFS. Scotland and the far north of England see no mild spell at all.


Modele UKMO - Carte prévisions


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
22 January 2021 16:14:49

When is the mild air due here? I'm fed up with the cool, snowless nothingness.


At least it's better than easterly muck.


 


 


 


Ah.


Quantum
22 January 2021 16:16:21


When is the mild air due here? I'm fed up with the cool, snowless nothingness.


At least it's better than easterly muck.


 


 


 


Ah.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


For you its not coming.


Even if the GFS is right which brings the mild air furthest north, it never reaches Aberdeen.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
22 January 2021 16:18:13

The great thing about Tuesday is that uppers are in the -2C to -4C range rather than the 0C to +1C range like they were last Thursday. So shouldn't be marginal for snow this time.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
22 January 2021 16:19:23

GEM has a suprise snow event out of nowhere on Monday



2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
22 January 2021 16:23:24

As a general rule I'd say:


Large synoptic pattern settled by 120h


Smaller scale synoptic pattern settled by 60h


Fine details reasonably reliable by 24h


 


However at the moment these rules of thumb seem to be a good 24 hours out. The suprise snow event on Monday from the GEM is not normal at this range. And it should not be ignored, the GEM is quite good at handeling the regions of vorticity asociated with a large slack area of LP well.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
22 January 2021 16:24:42

GEM is also the most progressive of the bunch for early next week.



Although I wouldn't rate the GEM's ability to handle the larger synoptic pattern as anything particularly special compared to GFS/ECM/UKMO.


 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Crepuscular Ray
22 January 2021 16:29:01
The 12Z GFS, if correct, keeps Scotland at least, in the cold for longer. Our snow cover would last all week at this rate.

Strangely the BBC lunchtime forecast showed milder SW winds, rain and 8 C for Edinburgh by Thursday
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
ballamar
22 January 2021 17:18:55
Fairly decent op run with an epic ending. Definitely a change today subtle but makes a big difference
Arbroath 1320
22 January 2021 17:25:32


This is as far north as the cold air gets on the ICON12z



And we know these sliders tend to be further north than they actually end up.


I should be clear this is attempt #2. Attempt #1 on Tuesday gets nowhere.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Will be interesting to see if ECM 12z follows suit as it often does. If so it will be a significant flip by ECM, which has been favouring a SW flow next week over the entire UK for several runs now.


GGTTH
hobensotwo
22 January 2021 17:28:07
Very good end to the 12z op from a southerners point of view, very cold and blocked.
Will be interesting to see if it has any support towards the end.
Rob K
22 January 2021 18:01:28

Eye-eye... what's this? 



Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
jhall
22 January 2021 18:06:02

Very good end to the 12z op from a southerners point of view, very cold and blocked.
Will be interesting to see if it has any support towards the end.

Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


The ensemble has certainly been trending colder in FI over recent runs, and that seems to have continued.


Cranleigh, Surrey
doctormog
22 January 2021 18:07:48


Eye-eye... what's this? 



Originally Posted by: Rob K 


It is the meteorological equivalent to the eye of Sauron drawing us inexorably towards the easterly equivalent of Mordor. Gandalf any chance of a helping hand? 


nsrobins
22 January 2021 18:59:36


 


It is the meteorological equivalent to the eye of Sauron drawing us inexorably towards the easterly equivalent of Mordor. Gandalf any chance of a helping hand? 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Moomin will probably be standing on the walls of Minas Melton Mowbray shouting ‘you shall not pass’ 🙂


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Hippydave
22 January 2021 19:03:57

Surprised the ECM didn't get a few comments, given it's cold and unsettled towards the end.


Further signs from the models of a cool down again as we head in to February although as GFS ens show there's still a reasonable chance of it being mild too. Overall though chilly or cold is looking more likely than mild IMO (usual it's FI and can/will change caveat).


Encouraging


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
doctormog
22 January 2021 19:04:47


 


Moomin will probably be standing on the walls of Minas Melton Mowbray shouting ‘you shall not pass’ 🙂


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 




In the interests of harmony I actually scrapped my initial post which had Moomin meeting the same fate as the Ring. 


(Only joking Kieren )


hobensotwo
22 January 2021 19:12:43
Not sure how relevant or on topic this is with regards to model output, so apologies if I'm putting this in the wrong thread.

If found this article & thought I would share:

https://worldclimateservice.com/2021/01/22/mjo-forecast-and-stratospheric-warming/ 

A very interesting read, and goes through various different, and most likely scenarios based on the current MJO + SSW forecasts. If correct shows a goood nod towards a colder Feb especially early on.
Arbroath 1320
22 January 2021 19:34:20

Not sure how relevant or on topic this is with regards to model output, so apologies if I'm putting this in the wrong thread.

If found this article & thought I would share:

https://worldclimateservice.com/2021/01/22/mjo-forecast-and-stratospheric-warming/

A very interesting read, and goes through various different, and most likely scenarios based on the current MJO + SSW forecasts. If correct shows a goood nod towards a colder Feb especially early on.

Originally Posted by: hobensotwo 


Thanks for posting. I agree, a very interesting read. May be consistent with what we are beginning to see in the FI sections of the model runs. 


GGTTH
moomin75
22 January 2021 19:34:34


 




In the interests of harmony I actually scrapped my initial post which had Moomin meeting the same fate as the Ring. 


(Only joking Kieren )


Originally Posted by: doctormog 

🤣🤣 Must confess I have absolutely no idea what you're all talking about, but my interest levels have perked up again 1 or 2 per cent.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
doctormog
22 January 2021 19:43:30


🤣🤣 Must confess I have absolutely no idea what you're all talking about, but my interest levels have perked up again 1 or 2 per cent.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Mordor, it’s like you but less gloomy. 


Anyway on topic  and I’ve noticed that there seems to be an unusually strong consensus in the linger range sources for colder than average conditions being more likely than milder in February. Perhaps surprising given La Niña conditions, but perhaps less so because of the stratospheric warmings? Who’d be a long range forecaster!


Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
22 January 2021 19:45:05


 


Fingers crossed then 


Originally Posted by: SJV 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
moomin75
22 January 2021 19:57:03


 


Mordor, it’s like you but less gloomy. 


Anyway on topic  and I’ve noticed that there seems to be an unusually strong consensus in the linger range sources for colder than average conditions being more likely than milder in February. Perhaps surprising given La Niña conditions, but perhaps less so because of the stratospheric warmings? Who’d be a long range forecaster!


Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I'm actually just on a sports radio show and have been accused of being grumpy and miserable by a former Manchester City striker. Can't believe I'm that grumpy really 


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL

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