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Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:33:19


If Boris recovers then Trump will take full credit
 
7:43


Trump asks 'genius' companies to help Boris






"US President Donald Trump says he asked two "genius" US companies to help in the treatment of the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who was moved to intensive care after his virus symptoms worsened."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52193858




Originally Posted by: RobN 

That really is very thoughtful of him and whatever we think of Trump, I’m sure his intentions are good.  But I wouldn’t be inclined to recommend treatment that hasn’t gone through thorough trials. 

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:34:51


 


I think he posted that before Johnson was moved to intensive care.


Re. hydroxychloroquine not everything is a (financial) conspiracy. It is highly probable that hydroxychloroquine and indeed chloroquine might have some benefit in the treatment of COVID-19 but I think it is a lack of understanding of the safety trials that must be carried out. Side-effects, longer term effects and contraindications all need to be considered. I can see why people (e.g. Trump) would see the limited evidence and think “use it to sort out COVID-19”, but for many very good reasons things don’t work like that. Much more research is needed.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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Ulric
07 April 2020 07:35:23

One way of that happening would be for the Chinese government to hold up their hands and say "We screwed up enormously, and we are truly sorry".


That won't bring back the many, many people worldwide who have died from this disease, but it might be start in terms of re-building some bridges and thus assisting cooperation between governments around the world.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Our own government could do the same and admit their herd immunity approach was flawed.


I'm not going to hold my breath.

"As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely on authority, there is no end to our troubles." - Bertrand Russell
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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:35:53


 


He may well be right but is surely not a very tactful time to point this out, while Boris is still in intensive care?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Tactful or not, I'm quite annoyed with Boris for letting his personal sense of invincibility and his inability to delegate to overcome any realisation that he wasn't in a fit state to run the country for some days prior to his hospital admission. But WYSIWYG, that was all part of the package of personal qualities which propelled him to PM.


I sincerely hope he recovers - but he'd surely have done so more quickly if he taken medical advice earlier.

War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Phil G
07 April 2020 07:36:30


 


One way of that happening would be for the Chinese government to hold up their hands and say "We screwed up enormously, and we are truly sorry".


That won't bring back the many, many people worldwide who have died from this disease, but it might be start in terms of re-building some bridges and thus assisting cooperation between governments around the world.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Exactly David. You imagine the silence here after such a cock up. Have they said sorry? There has been nothing, no remorse. While our own politicians are scrutunised to the hilt, I'd also expect those responsible for all this to have something to say. Are they too big for us? Show contempt? We need a lot more from China rather than dodgy stats.

Gandalf The White
07 April 2020 07:39:06


 


He is not on an invasive ventilator. But he is having positive air pressure applied to help his lungs.  Semantics


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


It’s only semantics if you don’t understand the difference. 

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:39:57


 


I am fairly sure of one thing, Phil: If Boris doesn't survive this, then I think the mood in this country will turn against the Chinese authorities big time.


It is bad enough that so many ordinary people on the street have already succumbed to this awful disease, but if Boris doesn't make it I really think there will be hell to pay.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

I understand that people are angry over this but I don’t think now is the right time to be looking for retribution.  The world needs to pull together to fight this virus and we should be putting all efforts into that rather than fighting each other.  The time will come for us to look at how to prevent this happening again, but the time isn’t now!

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
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Justin W
07 April 2020 07:40:27


 


It’s only semantics if you don’t understand the difference. 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I understand the difference, Peter. But thanks for your contribution.

Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Phil G
07 April 2020 07:41:30
Shows how little I know about markets. After news of the PM going into ICU, I fully expected the FTSE to be well down on opening.
Up 3%! WTF!
westv
07 April 2020 07:42:04


 


It’s only semantics if you don’t understand the difference. 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Invasive v non invasive ventilation?

At least it will be mild!
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:44:13


 


Such memory as exists in popular sentiment doesn't stretch back beyond WW2, at least for this country. How many people could tell you where the Opium Wars were, let alone explain their causes and effects?


Originally Posted by: DEW 


The memory of atrocities (such as the Opium Wars) lasts much longer in the victim nation's consciousness than the perpetrator.


https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-opium-wars-still-shape-chinas-view-of-the-west


 

Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Justin W
07 April 2020 07:49:41


Donald Trump said that he had ensured medicines would be sent to “the London office” for Boris Johnson.


 

Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Gavin D
07 April 2020 07:50:10
Swedish hospitals have stopped administering hydroxychloroquine & the HCQ/AZ combination to Coronavirus patients

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/06/hydroxychloroquine-update-for-april-6 
Brian Gaze
07 April 2020 07:54:20

Shows how little I know about markets. After news of the PM going into ICU, I fully expected the FTSE to be well down on opening.
Up 3%! WTF!


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


To put it bluntly the PM isn't a big factor in the world markets. What's driving sentiment is an increasing sign that the epidemic in Europe is waning.  

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Phil G
07 April 2020 07:54:45


I understand that people are angry over this but I don’t think now is the right time to be looking for retribution.  The world needs to pull together to fight this virus and we should be putting all efforts into that rather than fighting each other.  The time will come for us to look at how to prevent this happening again, but the time isn’t now!


Originally Posted by: Caz 


I think all discussions are happening at the moment, so why avoid one with those who are responsible for this. This acceptance that over 5,000 of our people dead is just unfortunate, one of those things is unbelievable. The Chinese don't value life as much as we do. If we had done the same to them we would be on our knees apologising to them, never forgive ourselves.


There has been nothing from them, no acknowledgement to all the grief they have caused in the world.

Roger Parsons
07 April 2020 07:54:51


I think he posted that before Johnson was moved to intensive care.


Re. hydroxychloroquine not everything is a (financial) conspiracy. It is highly probable that hydroxychloroquine and indeed chloroquine might have some benefit in the treatment of COVID-19 but I think it is a lack of understanding of the safety trials that must be carried out. Side-effects, longer term effects and contraindications all need to be considered. I can see why people (e.g. Trump) would see the limited evidence and think “use it to sort out COVID-19”, but for many very good reasons things don’t work like that. Much more research is needed.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I have assumed that the prior usage of these products will be a huge advantage, DrM. Am I right? We know the side effects across a long period of time. The only caveat is Paracelsus' "dose is everything" mantra - and what treatment - strength and duration - would be appropriate for CO-19. How far forward can the testing process jump under these circumstances? It's not like investigating a new compound, these are old friends.


Roger

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
xioni2
07 April 2020 07:55:15

Peter Foster has obtained a technical memo from a conference call from London ICU clinicians It describes a war like situation across London hospitals and how medics are trying to learn and adapt.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1247168747573403651.html

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:55:25


 


One way of that happening would be for the Chinese government to hold up their hands and say "We screwed up enormously, and we are truly sorry".


That won't bring back the many, many people worldwide who have died from this disease, but it might be start in terms of re-building some bridges and thus assisting cooperation between governments around the world.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

I don’t think it was only the Chinese government dragging their heels and I don’t think we’d have ever stopped it spreading.  What we need to do now is fight the virus together. 

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Maunder Minimum
07 April 2020 07:58:39

We all want Boris to pull through - terrible that he is in ICU with an acute case of the Chinese virus.


Just to be clear - the stats show that 50% of those who are intubated (to use the jargon) pull through and recover.


 

New world order coming.
Gandalf The White
07 April 2020 07:59:09


 


I understand the difference, Peter. But thanks for your contribution.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


No, thank you for yours. Endlessly inspiring.

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gavin D
07 April 2020 07:59:15

Roger Parsons
07 April 2020 08:04:46


I think all discussions are happening at the moment, so why avoid one with those who are responsible for this. This acceptance that over 5,000 of our people dead is just unfortunate, one of those things is unbelievable. The Chinese don't value life as much as we do. If we had done the same to them we would be on our knees apologising to them, never forgive ourselves.


There has been nothing from them, no acknowledgement to all the grief they have caused in the world.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


All governments are selective in what information they give out. None of them should be looking down their noses at the Chinese until the immediate crisis is over. I suggest that however excellent your analysis, the final story will be more complex and difficult to unravel than you imagine, if indeed we ever get to the bottom of it.


I am more concerned to know why, when such pandemics have been anticipated for years, our own preparedness has been so limited. The fact that we have done well to "pull a rabbit out of a hat" does not invalidate this point. I note with interest we are, in effect, recreating our Civil Defense Corps - to mention but one example.


Roger

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Heavy Weather 2013
07 April 2020 08:05:25




Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


They seemed to paint a very different message yesterday during the Downing Street briefing to the one above.

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gandalf The White
07 April 2020 08:08:26




Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


The problem with the last one is that people like Boris wouldn’t be shielded unless you included anyone with a high BMI; if you did the numbers needing protection would skyrocket.

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
07 April 2020 08:14:40


 


All governments are selective in what information they give out. None of them should be looking down their noses at the Chinese until the immediate crisis is over. I suggest that however excellent your analysis, the final story will be more complex and difficult to unravel than you imagine, if indeed we ever get to the bottom of it.


I am more concerned to know why, when such pandemics have been anticipated for years, our own preparedness has been so limited. The fact that we have done well to "pull a rabbit out of a hat" does not invalidate this point. I note with interest we are, in effect, recreating our Civil Defense Corps - to mention but one example.


Roger


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


Hi Roger,


It’s rare that I disagree with you but on two points here I do disagree.


Firstly, the behaviour of the Chinese authorities, which was not just about what information they provided or didn’t provide but about their deliberate attempts to cover up the outbreak. The subsequent misinformation is a matter of record.


As for preparedness, I wonder if we expect too much. Certainly things could have been handled better but sometimes clarity only comes with hindsight. Occasionally no amount of planning and preparedness can prevent a calamity.

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


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