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llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
07 April 2020 05:18:29

No overnight update regarding the PM other than he spent the night in intensive care.


Uncertain times in many way for so many......


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 05:31:29

My thoughts this morning are with our Prime Minister!  He’s given the country everything he’s got and I just hope it wasn’t too much!  I sincerely hope he pulls through.  


Come on Boris!  You can fight this!    


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
07 April 2020 05:38:43

NZ health minister fancies a trip to the beach......what is the matter with some people ?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52194407


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Brian Gaze
07 April 2020 06:09:57

Surprised to see the dreadful Boulton taking a different line.




Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Ulric
07 April 2020 06:37:10


Trump for some reason seems to be convinced that hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug, is a miracle cure for this virus. I can only assume that either he has some business interest in selling it, or one of his favourite conspiracy theory websites has been shilling it. Or both.


RobK wrote:


I saw an article giving the relative price per unit of HCQ purchased wholesale in various parts of the world.


India about $2.50


UK $6


US $25


I can't remember the exact figures but those are close. It does account for the efforts to push use of the drug IMO.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Phil G
07 April 2020 06:45:19

No new cases reported in China, though there is caution on these stats.

75,000 people dead worldwide with god knows how many more to die. Heard anything from China about this? Are they going to take any responsibility, or is it just our problem now? Anything they have pledged to help world economies out in future through the mess they created? Any remorse from them?

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 06:47:55


Surprised to see the dreadful Boulton taking a different line.




Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Boulton may be personally dreadful but I think he is quite right on this.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Rob K
07 April 2020 06:59:13


 


Boulton may be personally dreadful but I think he is quite right on this.


Originally Posted by: DEW 


He may well be right but is surely not a very tactful time to point this out, while Boris is still in intensive care?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:00:30
If Boris recovers then Trump will take full credit
 
7:43


Trump asks 'genius' companies to help Boris






"US President Donald Trump says he asked two "genius" US companies to help in the treatment of the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who was moved to intensive care after his virus symptoms worsened."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52193858




Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
doctormog
07 April 2020 07:04:09


 


He may well be right but is surely not a very tactful time to point this out, while Boris is still in intensive care?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I think he posted that before Johnson was moved to intensive care.


Re. hydroxychloroquine not everything is a (financial) conspiracy. It is highly probable that hydroxychloroquine and indeed chloroquine might have some benefit in the treatment of COVID-19 but I think it is a lack of understanding of the safety trials that must be carried out. Side-effects, longer term effects and contraindications all need to be considered. I can see why people (e.g. Trump) would see the limited evidence and think “use it to sort out COVID-19”, but for many very good reasons things don’t work like that. Much more research is needed.


David M Porter
07 April 2020 07:06:13


No new cases reported in China, though there is caution on these stats.

75,000 people dead worldwide with god knows how many more to die. Heard anything from China about this? Are they going to take any responsibility, or is it just our problem now? Anything they have pledged to help world economies out in future through the mess they created? Any remorse from them?


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


I am fairly sure of one thing, Phil: If Boris doesn't survive this, then I think the mood in this country will turn against the Chinese authorities big time.


It is bad enough that so many ordinary people on the street have already succumbed to this awful disease, but if Boris doesn't make it I really think there will be hell to pay.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Ulric
07 April 2020 07:09:44


No new cases reported in China, though there is caution on these stats.

75,000 people dead worldwide with god knows how many more to die. Heard anything from China about this? Are they going to take any responsibility, or is it just our problem now? Anything they have pledged to help world economies out in future through the mess they created? Any remorse from them?


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Look, governments are not necessarily nice things but they are necessary things. A virus mutation could happen anywhere and I suggest to you that many governments, including ours, would prevaricate and dissemble about it if it started on their own territory. Stones, glass houses and all that. I'm not here to defend any government, least of all one as authoritarian as that of China but I really do feel that your constant finger pointing and accusatory tone is not helpful and can only serve to make things worse, bearing in mind that this is a global problem and our best defence is to cooperate with others to defeat it. What we all need right now is open cooperation, not blaming and jingoism.


Our own colonial history in SE Asia strongly suggests that we will never be in a position to demand anything from China, let alone financial compensation. Since that isn't ever going to happen, the only possible result of stirring up hatred and mistrust is a mutually equivalent response which can only harm cooperation and thus, all of us. I entreat you to keep your thoughts on this subject to yourself for the time being. There may be a time to discuss it in the future but that time certainly isn't now.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Phil G
07 April 2020 07:17:01


 


Look, governments are not necessarily nice things but they are necessary things. A virus mutation could happen anywhere and I suggest to you that many governments, including ours, would prevaricate and dissemble about it if it started on their own territory. Stones, glass houses and all that. I'm not here to defend any government, least of all one as authoritarian as that of China but I really do feel that your constant finger pointing and accusatory tone is not helpful and can only serve to make things worse, bearing in mind that this is a global problem and our best defence is to cooperate with others to defeat it. What we all need right now is open cooperation, not blaming and jingoism.


Our own colonial history in SE Asia strongly suggests that we will never be in a position to demand anything from China, let alone financial compensation. Since that isn't ever going to happen, the only possible result of stirring up hatred and mistrust is a mutually equivalent response which can only harm cooperation and thus, all of us. I entreat you to keep your thoughts on this subject to yourself for the time being. There may be a time to discuss it in the future but that time certainly isn't now.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Questions are being asked about our behaviour in all this, why not question the ones that caused it.


There seems to be this mousey 'acceptance' from the likes of you and others. You are quick to hold people to account here, people who are trying to do their very best in a new situation, but are strangely quiet on asking questions from the ones who are responsible for all this.


This acceptance of the situation here without calling out the ones who created this mess in the first place is unbelievable. 

Gavin D
07 April 2020 07:18:52
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, Michael Gove, has told LBC that Boris has received oxygen overnight but hasn't moved to a ventilator.
David M Porter
07 April 2020 07:19:26


 


Look, governments are not necessarily nice things but they are necessary things. A virus mutation could happen anywhere and I suggest to you that many governments, including ours, would prevaricate and dissemble about it if it started on their own territory. Stones, glass houses and all that. I'm not here to defend any government, least of all one as authoritarian as that of China but I really do feel that your constant finger pointing and accusatory tone is not helpful and can only serve to make things worse, bearing in mind that this is a global problem and our best defence is to cooperate with others to defeat it. What we all need right now is open cooperation, not blaming and jingoism.


Our own colonial history in SE Asia strongly suggests that we will never be in a position to demand anything from China, let alone financial compensation. Since that isn't ever going to happen, the only possible result of stirring up hatred and mistrust is a mutually equivalent response which can only harm cooperation and thus, all of us. I entreat you to keep your thoughts on this subject to yourself for the time being. There may be a time to discuss it in the future but that time certainly isn't now.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Hi Ulric,


While I certainly can see where you are coming from, I think it might be an idea to have a read of GTW's post from last night just before the end of the last thread.


It was almost certainly the fact that the Chinese government spent 4-6 weeks from mid-December to late January trying to deny there was a serious problem developing and doing their best to cover it up that was the difference between this virus being no or little more than a local epidemic and a global pandemic which it became last month. It may all have been a terrible accident and nothing more, but I doubt that will be of any comfort at all to all those who have lost loved ones and/or suffered in other ways because of this.


If the Chinese had got on top of this at the outset in December as they should have, then everything that has happened since would very likely never have come to pass.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Justin W
07 April 2020 07:22:04

Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, Michael Gove, has told LBC that Boris has received oxygen overnight but hasn't moved to a ventilator.

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


He is not on an invasive ventilator. But he is having positive air pressure applied to help his lungs.  Semantics


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Ulric
07 April 2020 07:25:20


 


Hi Ulric,


While I certainly can see where you are coming from, I think it might be an idea to have a read of GTW's post from last night just before the end of the last thread.


It was almost certainly the fact that the Chinese government spent 4-6 weeks from mid-December to late January trying to deny there was a serious problem developing and doing their best to cover it up that was the difference between this virus being no or little more than a local epidemic and a global pandemic which it became last month. It may all have been a terrible accident and nothing more, but I doubt that will be of any comfort at all to all those who have lost loved ones and/or suffered in other ways because of this.


If the Chinese had got on top of this at the outset in December as they should have, then everything that has happened since would very likely never have come to pass.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


I don't disagree with any of that.


My point is that what is required right now is open cooperation on a global scale to save lives.


When all this is sorted out, we can talk about blame and the disappointing aspects of international diplomacy.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Joe Bloggs
07 April 2020 07:26:10


 


He is not on an invasive ventilator. But he is having positive air pressure applied to help his lungs.  Semantics


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


He’s clearly very gravely ill. Downing Street would understandably not go into fine details about his condition at this point.


I’m worried, really hope he pulls through. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
07 April 2020 07:26:28


Our own colonial history in SE Asia strongly suggests that we will never be in a position to demand anything from China, let alone financial compensation. Since that isn't ever going to happen, the only possible result of stirring up hatred and mistrust is a mutually equivalent response which can only harm cooperation and thus, all of us. I entreat you to keep your thoughts on this subject to yourself for the time being. There may be a time to discuss it in the future but that time certainly isn't now.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Such memory as exists in popular sentiment doesn't stretch back beyond WW2, at least for this country. How many people could tell you where the Opium Wars were, let alone explain their causes and effects?


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Bugglesgate
07 April 2020 07:26:42


 


He is not on an invasive ventilator. But he is having positive air pressure applied to help his lungs.  Semantics


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


The watershed from very serious to extremely serious  I think is  whether people get knocked out and "entubed". 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
doctormog
07 April 2020 07:28:23


 


The watershed from very serious to extremely serious  I think is  whether people get knocked out and "entubed". 


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


Yes, I was about to say that. With CPAP the patient remains conscious whereas with more invasive ventilation they are not.


Justin W
07 April 2020 07:28:39


 


He’s clearly very gravely ill. Downing Street would understandably not go into fine details about his condition at this point.


I’m worried, really hope he pulls through. 


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


Hi Joe - Yes, I feel exactly the same way. I am very worried about the PM and fervently hope that he recovers. 


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Ulric
07 April 2020 07:28:43


Such memory as exists in popular sentiment doesn't stretch back beyond WW2, at least for this country. How many people could tell you where the Opium Wars were, let alone explain their causes and effects?


Originally Posted by: DEW 


I bet people are reading up on the Opium Wars right now.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
David M Porter
07 April 2020 07:30:38


 


I don't disagree with any of that.


My point is that what is required right now is open cooperation on a global scale to save lives.


When all this is sorted out, we can talk about blame and the disappointing aspects of international diplomacy.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


One way of that happening would be for the Chinese government to hold up their hands and say "We screwed up enormously, and we are truly sorry".


That won't bring back the many, many people worldwide who have died from this disease, but it might be start in terms of re-building some bridges and thus assisting cooperation between governments around the world.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Phil G
07 April 2020 07:31:45


 


I bet people are reading up on the Opium Wars right now.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


I thought these were happening in our streets now.

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