Well if you read the article there is the following

'King said political advisers were never on the equivalent committees of Sage when he chaired them and argued that Cummings, who is not a scientist, could report his own interpretation of Sage advice back to the prime minister.

Other former members of Sage also said they could not recall political appointees being on previous committees. David Lidington, a former Cabinet Office minister and de facto deputy to Theresa May when she was prime minister, said: “I’m not aware of any minister or special adviser, certainly not in Theresa May’s time, ever having been involved in the scientific advisory panels.” '

Your memory is failing you again, Four.  I was questioning the over-reactions at the time.  Obviously you've forgotten the ludicrous comments about Coivd-19 being out of control in Singapore and other overreactions - again, I need to stress, at the time.

Yes I've read that, what I'm suggesting is that is it conceivable that cummings is not a member of SAGE but merely attended a meeting in official capacity as a #10 representative? And the Guardian incorrectly made the leap that this makes him a member. So my question is, is it unusual for #10 representatives to be present at meetings like this. if its not unusual there could be a completely innocent explanation for this.

The media has confused procedural normalities for extranormalities before and I'm quite skeptical of this story because it suggests a truly incredible scandal. Perhaps this is a scandal, but perhaps it will just be the Guardian trying to spin something completely normal into a story as they have done before in the past.

But this isn't just a healthcare issue, as you must know: it's the worst pandemic for a century and is impacting the country in many ways, not least the economy and social services.  The only person responsible for all these areas is the prime minister.  It's like war being declared and you suggesting it only needs the Defence Minister.

It is now clear that ventilators are the wrong treatment for most patients and often make the condition worse. Experience has demonstrated that the non-invasive CPAP device provides for better outcomes in the majority and fewer fatalities.

Getting put on a ventilator for COVID-19 is almost becoming a death sentence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52409359

Even I wasn't going as far as to call it the 'worst pandemic for a century' back in January which the Sunday Times eluded to. The paper made a big song and dance about Handcock chairing meetings in January even though that is completely normal (and not just this admin, happened in the 2009 outbreak under Blair too).

The Sunday times took a procedural normality and span it into a story. Doing so was irresponsible. If the government is fcking up then we need to know about it. And the media has a responsibility of not inventing stories because if the government does screw up then how do we even know if we can believe the spin?

I've a special interest in dentists opening up again  as I've broken a tooth.  I've bodged it up  with some temporary stuff for now but I really need it sorted out before I get an infection. 

The  British Dental Association has recommend  all dentists close becuase of   lack of PPE.   They even seem to be struggling  to get enough for the  emergency dental centres they have set up that will only take you on AFTER your condition has become a general health hazard.   This is why I'm against rolling out surgical grade masks to the general public - Most  of the retards round here who aren't even  observing social distancing wouldn't have a clue how to use them properly anyway.   The priority needs to go to the health services including dentists. When teeth "go wrong" they can rapidly  impact on your general well being.  I should know, a  few years back I ended up with  simultaneous abscesses on both sides of my mouth.  Aside from the excruciating agony the risk  to your overall health is high.

There is a balance in all these things when resources are scarce, they need to go the areas where they have most leverage.

Generally, I'm increasingly of the opinion that we can't go on like this. 

Danger rant ahead !

Again, today on my walk, people nattering in groups, kid intermingling between family groups.  The road traffic was  back to normal in the village - usual collection of huge 4X4's blocking visibility at junctions and  cars sewn all over the place. 

I'm afraid I lost my rag at one point.  I was forced off the pavement by a group of "natterer's" so I stepped into the road in front of  a huge 4X4 and stuck my hand up.  I then walked pointedly down the middle of the road past the "natterer's".  I then politely  acknowledged the 4X4 driver and returned to the pavement - he didn't look too happy - well tough tulip!!! Natterer's didn't even notice !

To be frank I'm f*king sick of it always having to  be ME that  enforces social distancing -  an increasing number of people really couldn't give a tinkers cuss - and nor will I for much longer  unless there is a general shift to more compliance !

In typical Trump fashion, one minute the enemy, the next his best friend. Look, he is just saying he was being sarcastic to change the tone and attack on him, even if that means not coming clean to what he really meant and did.

He hasn't a clue about science, was just thinking out loud, offering something that he hoped would lead to a miraculous way forward and said it would be good to look at that. Did the public pick up on it or was it the media who hang on his every word?

Trump is very different being in the political world to say the least. He is direct, answers a question, yes and the truth can be 'a bit economical at times'! But, especially from people who scrutinise him day after day, day and night sometimes I am very surprised they don't understand the character, how he works, the controversial side, sometimes a sensible compassionate side as well. He is not your mainstream politician, he is a businessman through and through, but will call a spade a spade and that's what people don't like.

I am not changing my view on what he said. I thought he was just trying to be helpful, even though science isn't his field and is probably shocked (maybe not), upset (maybe not) and that his words were taken completly out of context and was just a mini debate there on screen between a few people. He kept saying we can look at that, look at that with the 'problem solving' that was going on, but that was just between him and his medical friends, it was obvious to see.

The mentions about saying this in front of a TV audience means they are going to start jabbing away, I would hope expect, probably certain in fact that those stupid enough to even think about doing it would not have the intelligence, the interest, be watching the broadcast or are so out of it they would not know what day of the week it was anyway.

No, it was just the media who highlighted and picked up on this, made this a headline to add to the list what a very very bad man he is. And to think the 'sensible' people here actually made something of it as well, very surprised.

And look I'm not saying the government shouldn't be critisized but it should be tackled on their mistakes and held to account. It is in everyone's best interest that the media doesn't degrade its own credibility by inventing stories.

Take the Cummings story. That is either an earth shattering scandal or a blown up bag of nothing. Either way someone is getting egg on their face.

Hmmm tricky one that yes it can induce problems but again if options are very limited what’s the choice?

Another big example, this from last year but fairly illustrative.

It was widely reported that an independent study found 88% of facebook conservative party ads were false but 0% of Labour ads. This appeared everywhere, notably on the BBC and this is where most people thought the story originated from.

It actually originated from some far-left think tank with strong ties to the official green party. The 'study' in question had a dismal sample size and all kinds of methodological aberations and of course with its green party links was not independent. Nevertheless the 88% figure was ubiqituous.

Regional data for new cases today in England

The 7 English regions 

• London +296 (1.3%) 23,063


• Midlands +450 (2.6%) 17,113


• North West +570 (3.5%) 16,252


• South East +562 (3.8%) 14,974


• North East and Yorkshire +626 (4.2%) 14,872


• East of England +224 (2.5%) 8,878


• South West +117 (2.1%) 5,528

The 10 local areas with the highest cases

1. Kent +133 (4.5%) 2,959


2. Birmingham +69 (2.7%) 2,552


3. Hampshire +68 (2.8%) 2,439


4. Lancashire +76 (3.2%) 2,381


5. Surrey +112 (4.9%) 2,288


6. Essex +50 (2.4%) 2,119


7. Hertfordshire +38 (1.9%) 2,034


8. Sheffield +105 (5.7%) 1,856


9. Cumbria +49 (3.0%) 1,633


10. Staffordshire +50 (3.4%) 1,455

The 10 local areas with the lowest cases

1. Rutland +2 (13.3%) 15


2. Isle of Wight +6 (7.3%) 82


3. North East Lincolnshire +5 (4.4%) 114


4. Hartlepool +18 (13.7%) 131


5. Torbay +8 (4.5%) 177


6. Bracknell Forest +9 (4.9%) 183


7. Peterborough +14 (7.6%) 185


8. North Somerset +7 (3.7%) 190


9. Bath and North East Somerset + 5 (2.6%) 192


10. Herefordshire, County of +23 (11.6%) 198

I know you can use Nitric oxide along with oxygen with CPAP for ARDS so the data would be an interesting one

Just to be a pedant but it would be nitrous oxide (not nitric oxide, mono or di) which wouldn’t be a wise idea. 

Unless you mean as a vasodilator (which would make more sense). 

The obvious problem with your narrative is that it was felt necessary to hold regular Cobra meetings. They're only called when there's an emergency, so clearly it was acknowledged as such and as soon as the scale and the implications were understood then the PM should have taken charge. However you spin it, Johnson should have been managing it for several weeks before he fell ill.

The former Michael my mistake my boy had it the idea is it dilates and relaxes the lungs hence making oxygen easier entry into the lungs

quote=doctormog;1208869]

Just to be a pedant but it would be nitrous oxide (not nitric oxide, mono or di) which wouldn’t be a wise idea.