I see Michael has already replied and made the right distinction, but it is very a much a significant story and you are just being blinkered. SAGE is supposed to provide independent scientific advice and it would not be a surprise to have some rigorous debate, disagreement and even criticism before forming a consensus. If members know that a very powerful political advisor is present (one who has the ear of the PM), do you not think that would make them much more careful in what they say and could even affect the outcome?

 

They were talking about this on CNN last night. The expert they had was worried and said we are still learning about this novel virus and the long term effects on the body. 

The message was try not to catch it until you can be vaccinated. Even if you had mild symptoms and recovered it might have damaged something inside you and you don't realise it yet

 

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The carry on as normal brigade are starting to really ** me off now. But it seems it's happening everywhere.

Check out some of the excuses given to police in Wales for breaking lockdown rules:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52386123

Winner must be 'I don't watch the news; what's going on?'

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Spain's last 24 hours

• 3,995 new cases


• 378 new deaths

Either you have haven't actually read the article or you are just spinning to your agenda.

The Guardian isn't claiming that a Downing Street adviser being present at a Sage meeting is exceptional. This is made clear. It is whether of not he contributed that is the issue.

Asked again at the Downing Street press conference whether Cummings made contributions to Sage, Powis would only say that it is the “scientists that make the scientific contributions”.

Previous scientific advisers said the details of Cummings’s involvement in the committee were crucial. Prof Derek Hill, of University College London, said: “I was on a science advisory group for dementia research when David Cameron was prime minister. Advisers from No 10 often turned up, but just as observers.

“The question here is whether Cummings not only attends but actively participates in Sage. For example, does he talk more at these meetings than some of the scientists?”

 

Publishing the minutes of the meetings would remove any doubt. Why are the secret?

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The calls in Maryland and elsewhere about it in the 24hrs after he said it. The increase in numbers given medical help in that same period for trying these methods. I get it. You just don't want to see it.

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You couldn't make it up! Poor Vietnamese children are spending their pocket money to help us. 

 

Two kids in Hanoi recently gifted 20K medical masks to 🇬🇧, using the “lucky money" that they've saved up for a few years. These masks have been sent to 🇬🇧 successfully on our special commercial flight last week. Many thanks Nhan & Khoi! You can read Amb. @GarethWardUK's letter 👇 pic.twitter.com/02s3VIZ4lv

— UK in Vietnam🇬🇧🇻🇳 (@UKinVietnam) April 24, 2020

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I agree with Q on this. If its not Cummings its /johnson/conservatives/leave/Trump. There's a trend there!

Let's see how Marr interrogates Raab soon on this as the BBC/Guardian walk hand in hand,

Communist propaganda, don't believe a word of it, blah blah.

 

I didn't read the quote that way Nick. Rather saying, a particular widespread yearly epidemic (which happens to be flu) - perhaps?

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You'd be surprised at the numbers of people wrapped up in their own bubbles. Some of my facebook and twitter contacts have stopped watching the news and are now bored of Covid. They want normal life to return, and they will just start doing what they did before until someone in authority stops them

 

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Thanks Lionel, that's true on the number of testing. Perhaps the 'better' measure is hospital admissions. Anyone got the best data source for these thanks.

Yes, I think it's highly likely supermarkets. Morrisons was actually very busy when I looked in their car park yesterday, thought it was far too risky to go in there. Other possibilities include long incubation of C-19 of up to 14 days, possible post infection dormancy & rekindling. Also, poor hygiene in handling delivered goods. 

I shop in there. The next time I'll go in there and speak to the check out staff as I go through as they are quite chatty. Be 'interesting' if their staff are getting infected. I don't see any of them with masks, on the floor or behind the screens.

Did anyone watch Marr earlier? I never realised what a slimy git he is until now.
When trying to crucify Nicola Sturgeon for Scotland having 30% of deaths in care homes, he said England’s figure is 10%.
Minutes later when interviewing Raab, he mentioned how bad the English data was looking with about 50% of deaths in care homes!

Using different figures for the same stat, to batter two different figures...

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I tell you what Nick. You get the proof it just wasn't the same idiots in Maryland calling that number, get the stats on other States on household agent abuse year on year (I haven't seen other States reporting this), see how the numbers stack up over several years and perhaps you may be onto something. Until then, I stand by my latest post on this. 13 or 30, people dabble with household agents. Get the previous years data as well if it helps. It seems you don't accept that household agent abuse hasn't happened in the past, it has, and without Donald Duck.

I thought the same, llamedos. R.

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Yes it has. However, the point is numbers are far too high for contact tracing. We need to get down to the low 100s. 

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I bet that people ingesting household detergents in normal times are either (a) young children or (b) suicidal people. I think it's fair to assume that the recent doubling is due to people believing Trump, not an increase in (a) or (b).

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Say if it was 50 the year before that Darren, what then? Assume, your assumption, do you really know? Not another one!

It depends on how they are clustered though, it's possible that the majority of current new infections (not those announced today) is associated with hospitals and care homes. We just don't know because of the lack of proper testing. This will hopefully improve in the next few weeks and the lag between infection and testing result should also come down.

 

Between 3 & 10% of UK's population may have been infected with Covid-19 according to Professor Christophe Fraser.

Edit: predicted rather than may

So you're putting it down to sheer coincidence that the numbers just happened to have doubled in the wake of the President of the United States hypothesising such a treatment? Do you really know?

The rest of us are putting 2 and 2 together to make 4. You're forgetting that there are millions who think Trump can do no wrong, and a tiny fraction of these supporters (with an alarming lack of common sense and self-preservation) take it upon themselves to test Trump's hypothesis with predictable consequences.

None of us have proof that it is definitely the case, but come on Phil!  

The word doubled Steve has been used by the BBC but that is from a low base. From 13 to 30 people out of 19 million. 1 one year up to 2 is 100% growth. Say if it was 50 the year before, what then? Remember the golden rule on here, don't take figures in isolation, up one minute when they were down the next, it tells you nothing. Say if there was 40 last year, because for whatever reason it was a worse year for these stats, and there was the 30 this year, this information would not have been used. It was perhaps 'cherry picked' to serve a purpose, an agenda.

Statistically the rise is not significant, but even putting my loathing for Trump to one side I find it difficult to not attribute the rise to his ill-judged words. To me it is too much of a coincidence, however easy it is to jump to conclusions. We will have to agree to disagree on this occasion