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doctormog
03 May 2020 07:02:03


 


Actually if you looked carefully you would see that it doesn't say a below average for UK - though towards Scotland the chance is moderate.


For England & Wales


19-40% above 


41-60% near normal 


19-40% below 


So that could be interpreted in many way.


Worst case..


19% above / 41% average / 40% below


Best case..


40% above / 41% average / 19% below 


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


You can see the European (and other) views from here https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob 


David M Porter
03 May 2020 10:37:34

I’d been getting an uncomfortable 2007/2012 feeling about this summer and recent model runs have reinforced it. The good old Greenland high is back. Oh dear.

Originally Posted by: TimS 


While I take your general point, I think it should be remembered that there were differences between 2007 and 2012 in terms of when the best weather in each of those springs came along.


In 2007, the warm and dry spell first started towards the end of March and then continued right through April and into early May. It was only im mid-May when the weather took a turn for the worse. 2012 was different, in that the best weather came during the second half of March with temperatures getting into the 20s in some areas for a while. April 2012 turned out to be a different kettle of fish to April 2007 though; it was generally unsettled and fairly cool throughout from what I recall and set the tone for much of the rest of 2012.


I think that pattern matching can and does have some relevance, but I would be careful about putting a huge amount of faith in it tbh. The weather doesn't have a memory.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
picturesareme
03 May 2020 13:01:40


 


You can see the European (and other) views from here https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/gpc-outlooks/glob-seas-prob 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Thank you. So now with a more detailed view even Scotland looks to be about average. 

AJ*
  • AJ*
  • Advanced Member
03 May 2020 14:47:47

Right at the end of the forecast on the BBC website, Ben Rich mentioned briefly that the weather would turn much colder next weekend.  On the GEFS plots for both Aberdeen and London there is one solitary member that shows this.  Gavin P in his weekly thoughts gives a hint of cold next weekend, too.  It could be a change to keep an eye on.


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Tonbridge, 40m (131ft) asl
Phil G
03 May 2020 17:25:32


Right at the end of the forecast on the BBC website, Ben Rich mentioned briefly that the weather would turn much colder next weekend.  On the GEFS plots for both Aberdeen and London there is one solitary member that shows this.  Gavin P in his weekly thoughts gives a hint of cold next weekend, too.  It could be a change to keep an eye on.


Originally Posted by: AJ* 


Saw that forecast as well Angus. The latest GFS 12z however suggests its not next weekend we should be looking at this but the weekend after now, and the chance of copious rain as well with low pressure in the channel. A long way away however and let's see what the ECM says.


Edit: ECM says no a colder blast is on the way next weekend and the BBC are going for that one. The times we have seen two of the main models differ so much, only for the outcome to finish somewhere between the two.

Stormchaser
03 May 2020 21:18:32

As of the 12z runs today, for 7-9 days from now...


Cold spell of exceptional magnitude for the time of year, with widespread scattered showers that could at times turn wintry even to low levels: ECM, GEM, UKMO (all lined up at +144).


Cold diverted east of the UK, warmer but unsettled with lows tracking through the UK: GFS, ICON


In between the two - glancing blow from the cold air - cool days and cold nights, some showers - mainly in the east: JMA.


 


As Phil G says, the reality is often a blend of ECM and GFS, so JMA may be onto something here.


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GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
03 May 2020 21:30:58


As of the 12z runs today, for 7-9 days from now...


Cold spell of exceptional magnitude for the time of year, with widespread scattered showers that could at times turn wintry even to low levels: ECM, GEM, UKMO (all lined up at +144).


Cold diverted east of the UK, warmer but unsettled with lows tracking through the UK: GFS, ICON


In between the two - glancing blow from the cold air - cool days and cold nights, some showers - mainly in the east: JMA.


 


As Phil G says, the reality is often a blend of ECM and GFS, so JMA may be onto something here.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


It will be interesting to see which model, if any, verifies.  Big differences between ECM and GFS Ops for next weekend. I notice that my Google weather forecast seems to be reflecting ECM at the moment with a big temperature drop on Sunday. 


Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)
Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
03 May 2020 21:55:08


As of the 12z runs today, for 7-9 days from now...


Cold spell of exceptional magnitude for the time of year, with widespread scattered showers that could at times turn wintry even to low levels: ECM, GEM, UKMO (all lined up at +144).


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


and meteo group on BBC WFTWA


Nursery rhynmes for the modern era


The North wind doth blow
And we shall have snow
And what will the robin do then, poor thing?


He'll go back to his nest
And take a brief rest
From raising his chicks in the Maytime, poor thing.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Retron
04 May 2020 04:52:00


 


Nursery rhynmes for the modern era


The North wind doth blow
And we shall have snow
And what will the robin do then, poor thing?


He'll go back to his nest
And take a brief rest
From raising his chicks in the Maytime, poor thing.


Originally Posted by: DEW 


More like:


The north wind doth blow


And we won't have snow


And what will the robin do then, poor thing?


He'll go back to his nest


And have a nice rest


From being blown around in the spring.


It'll be interesting to see if the NNE'ly near-gales being forecast for here actually come off... it's an unusual direction to have such strong winds. GFS, incidentally, is showing temperatures varying between 6C by night and 9C by day as a result here. Cold for the time of year, but nowhere near cold enough for snow.


Leysdown, north Kent
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
04 May 2020 07:10:44

Will we get the direly cold weather? http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4 directs it mostly to Europe.


GFS has HP over UK until Sat 9th; unlike yesterday's forecast the HP then wobbles around between Iceland and Scotland for the next week to Sat 16th with occasional incursions of cold air from the NE but nothing dramatic; shallow LP then drifts up from the Continent to affect S England. Nothing off the Atlantic as there was yesterday


ECM treats the development of the HP differently. The current cell fades out southwards by Sat 9th and a new one starts out in Greenland with a brief spell of NE gales Sun 10th. The HP then drifts s-wards to W Ireland by Thu 14th cutting off the really cold stuff,; N-lies, yes but the source of the air is Atlantic round the top of the high.


GEFS after mild this week is going for a really big dip in temp in nearly all runs (not just outliers as before) on Mon 11th, 8-9C below norm, slowly recovering over the following week, and some rain at the same time. Bit s and pieces of rain later on.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
nsrobins
04 May 2020 07:34:38


Indeed, but looking back it’s not such an unusual thing to have a brief Arctic plunge mid-May. 


The concern is the effect on tender plants of a genuine air frost.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
04 May 2020 08:48:39


 


Indeed, but looking back it’s not such an unusual thing to have a brief Arctic plunge mid-May. 


The concern is the effect on tender plants of a genuine air frost.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


cf 1974-5 https://durhamweather.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/bonacina.html when  4" snow was reported from East Anglia 1/2nd June.


I have cause to remember that spell as we were organising an orienteering event at Ladybower in the Peak District and there was substantial snow in the area a week beforehand. So we planned a long-ish and strenuous course so competitors could get really warmed up. The day of the event it was 25C in the shade and there were bitter complaints about it being too hot - "Don't you know it's summer" etc.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
JOHN NI
04 May 2020 12:14:07


 


Snow showers to low levels if that comes off..... :-) 


John.
The orange County of Armagh.
Brian Gaze
04 May 2020 13:07:34

Still plenty of snow rows appearing in northern locations.



 



 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Bolty
04 May 2020 13:51:54

Those ECM charts really are extremely cold for early May. The 00z has the -10C isotherm in Scotland on Monday. Put it this way, in winter that would be a pretty deep cold spell. It really wouldn't surprise me if some northern areas actually have snow showers if this keeps up.



Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
Chunky Pea
04 May 2020 14:09:15


Those ECM charts really are extremely cold for early May. The 00z has the -10C isotherm in Scotland on Monday. Put it this way, in winter that would be a pretty deep cold spell. It really wouldn't surprise me if some northern areas actually have snow showers if this keeps up.



Originally Posted by: Bolty 


Haven't looked at any of today's outputs, but the GFS yesterday at least also had a pretty deep cold plunge for the much N. American continent as well towards the end of this coming weekend. 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
picturesareme
04 May 2020 16:51:33

Just a thought..


 


How often does any extreme weather end up being watered down come the event at this range? Especially stuff from the north.

Phil G
04 May 2020 17:11:33


Just a thought..


 


How often does any extreme weather end up being watered down come the event at this range? Especially stuff from the north.


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


May do, but my untrained eye says it's more of an upgrade, certainly on the GFS. ECM starts in an hour. Some interesting and unexpected charts so late 'in the season'.

Quantum
04 May 2020 17:12:04

The latest I've ever seen snow in my life was the 5th May (in 2012).


Chance we could push that back a few days next weekend!


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
04 May 2020 17:14:04
The ensemble charts certainly caught my eye with a near 15C drop in uppers from around +8C to -7C down here. Maybe I won't plant the rest of my tender veggies out just yet
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
icecoldstevet
04 May 2020 18:45:25

Interesting output with possible snow but not totally unknown for this time of year.  I clearly remember snow on the ground first thing in Dudley on 2nd May 1979, it was the morning of my driving test !!  Fortunately it was mainly on the grass and pavements and I passed.


Cornwall - 50 Metres Above Sea Level - 1 Mile From The Atlantic Coast
tallyho_83
04 May 2020 19:13:44
Crazy charts - how did I guess that we merely saw one -10c isothem the whole winter, when even the -5 isothem was rare and then 1st/2nd week of May - here it comes and a proper northerly plunge which would have given sub zero daytime maxes in winter and snow etc! - Typical really.
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Heavy Weather 2013
04 May 2020 19:21:10
Three days ago I looked at GFS ensembles and it looked like the idea of a cooler snap was dropped. Then whoosh it’s back with a vengeance
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Phil G
04 May 2020 19:52:55
A day later and GFS is now looking more 'wintrier' than ECM after ECM first suggested the idea of a cold blast!

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