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The Beast from the East
07 May 2020 09:35:11


 


 


The issue is not so much with what the government is officially saying  (notwithstanding the nauseating spectacle of the 5pm mutual back-slapping broadcast) but that the message of maintaining these strict measures is increasingly rubbished by elements of their own side - from arrogant fellow Tory figures to the ranting right-wing media. Failure of police to be bothered enforcing restrictions - a by-product of some power-crazed bellends in uniform being comically over-zealous and making negative headlines earlyinthe lockdown? - is amplifying this.


It's all serving to create the perception that 'lockdown' restrictions are all a bit optional. A population that is now beyond weary of these restrictions and desperate for a return to some normality is embracing the attitude of the whole thing now being rather passe.


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



If Professor Pantsdown can escape without a fine, they why should anyone else comply?


The Govt messaging on this has been appalling. The impression given is that its now "safe" to go out as much as you like. Of course, most shops will still be closed but the ones that will be open like Ikea and Garden centres will be packed with people just wanting something different to look at. Travel on public transport will rise too and all London buses are free at the moment


And also Public spaces will be packed this weekend. Not that I will be complaining to see girls in bikinis sunbathing


 


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
07 May 2020 09:35:57


 


Which does not rebut my point. You were wrong.


As for 'why ..... doesn't the NHS have an IT branch' - that's one of the most bizarre, nonsensical and ludicrous comments you've made - and there are a lot of candidates.


I'm afraid your comment reflects your politics and a gross lack of understanding.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


What politics, there is no political capital to be gained by critisizing the NHS which has a 98% public approval last I checked.


The contact tracing app should have nothing to do with the NHS. It should come from a tech firm that knows what they are doing.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
fairweather
07 May 2020 09:36:52


 


Quite agree Steve and we haven't even got on top of the constant 4k or so before that. We needed to understand what was driving that which may have helped with future decision making. With any relaxations, we are already starting from such a high base number our new cases will very quickly take off, perhaps worse than before.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


It seems so obvious and relatively easy. The tracing they should be doing is finding out how all these cases are getting it. Because as sure as hell it isn't people obeying the lockdown. Once you've got the profile of where the weak links are that's where the strictest measures can be applied. Now clearly that won't be easy if it is front line workers but you still can't have a sensible strategy until you know.


If me and Phil can see it why can't the Government or its Scientists? Sometimes you just wish you could be at the Press Conference and ask the question.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Quantum
07 May 2020 09:37:29


 



If Professor Pantsdown can escape without a fine, they why should anyone else comply?


The Govt messaging on this has been appalling. The impression given is that its now "safe" to go out as much as you like. Of course, most shops will still be closed but the ones that will be open like Ikea and Garden centres will be packed with people just wanting something different to look at. Travel on public transport will rise too and all London buses are free at the moment


And also Public spaces will be packed this weekend. Not that I will be complaining to see girls in bikinis sunbathing


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


The government has been clear that people should 'stay at home'. How hard is that to grasp. And unlike the Scottish CMO at least this guy was immediately kicked to the curve where he belongs for undermining the public message.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Retron
07 May 2020 09:41:54


As I suggested earlier location services need to be enabled for it to work. It's a 2 stage process:


1) The user is presented with a screen where he has to accept permissions to continue


2) An Android pop up opens where the user has to grant or deny permissions


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Yup, location services always on and bluetooth always on - going to be great for battery usage, not!


Makes me wonder what the tinfoil hat brigade will make of having to have BT on all the time too...


Leysdown, north Kent
Roger Parsons
07 May 2020 09:41:58


I wonder what makes a gown fail safety standards?


Originally Posted by: westv 


Legs?


R.


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Phil G
07 May 2020 09:50:59


 


It seems so obvious and relatively easy. The tracing they should be doing is finding out how all these cases are getting it. Because as sure as hell it isn't people obeying the lockdown. Once you've got the profile of where the weak links are that's where the strictest measures can be applied. Now clearly that won't be easy if it is front line workers but you still can't have a sensible strategy until you know.


If me and Phil can see it why can't the Government or its Scientists? Sometimes you just wish you could be at the Press Conference and ask the question.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


Exactly. They have got this data and management information, now use it! It's telling us something, go and investigate. Go and learn something!

The Beast from the East
07 May 2020 09:51:35


 


The government has been clear that people should 'stay at home'. How hard is that to grasp. And unlike the Scottish CMO at least this guy was immediately kicked to the curve where he belongs for undermining the public message.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Not anymore. The official message has  changed


Professor pantsdown was not fined


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
picturesareme
07 May 2020 09:58:40


Had a manic afternoon and evening so just catching up from yesterday 


6,000 new cases is a real concern , if that continues I wonder 'if' Boris might change the contents of his speech on Sunday ?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Unlike some in here i would have thought the government would have been smart enough to realise the more test's done the more confirmed cases there would be. 


Right from the offset the experts have saying between 10-35x more people have been infected then getting tested, even some reports of experts thinking that ratio even higher. 

howham
07 May 2020 10:02:54


 


The government has been clear that people should 'stay at home'. How hard is that to grasp. And unlike the Scottish CMO at least this guy was immediately kicked to the curve where he belongs for undermining the public message.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I thought he resigned?

Maunder Minimum
07 May 2020 10:06:58


 


The government has been clear that people should 'stay at home'. How hard is that to grasp. And unlike the Scottish CMO at least this guy was immediately kicked to the curve where he belongs for undermining the public message.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


You have to take everything Beast says and posts with a pinch of salt He is a classic wind-up merchant.


It was only a few days ago that he was saying the government's messaging had been brilliant.


New world order coming.
llamedos
07 May 2020 10:08:46


 


I wonder what makes a gown fail safety standards?


Originally Posted by: westv 

Self dissolving stitching ?


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Gooner
07 May 2020 10:16:53


 


Why do you always assume the worst? Other countries have begun to lift their restrictions and there has been no catastrophe or calamity. 


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


Our positive tests are increasing 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Saint Snow
07 May 2020 10:24:14


 


The government has been clear that people should 'stay at home'.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


Is that why, when it became clear that tens of thousands of holiday-home owners were swanning off for an Easter jolly to the seaside or countryside, Downing Street issued the advice that second-home owners should not travel back to their primary residences, effectively giving the green light for this privileged group to do as they pleased without fear of punishment.


Meanwhile, Fred Pleb taking his family for a few hours out 20 miles away get a FPN and sent home.


Why should ordinary people have to adhere to restrictions when the wealthy get carte blanche? The government should have set-up a 'grass up second home owners on an illegal break' scheme, give the snitches half of the FPN value as a reward, and sent the pampered set back to their primary residences.


After initial clarity and some praise-worthy measures introduced, it's been an increasingly muddled message from HM Government.


 


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Saint Snow
07 May 2020 10:28:57


 


Not sure. Doesn't have the NHS logo on it?


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


That doesn't appear to be an issue:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-52359124



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Quantum
07 May 2020 10:41:32


 


I thought he resigned?


Originally Posted by: howham 


Resigned or 'resigned' i.e jumped before pushed?


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Maunder Minimum
07 May 2020 10:44:25

Epidemiologist Professor Johan Giesecke writes in The Lancet


“… facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.”



New world order coming.
fairweather
07 May 2020 10:44:58


And also Public spaces will be packed this weekend. Not that I will be complaining to see girls in bikinis sunbathing


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


You'll be disappointed if you go Sunday. 


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Saint Snow
07 May 2020 10:47:54

Scandalous


Parents who have had to wait weeks due to huge problems with the free school meals voucher scheme (outsourced to a private company - ahem, Quantum) are finding that even now their vouchers have arrived, they frequently aren't accepted at tills.


One heartbreaking story a woman and her daughter getting the bus to a Tesco after receiving their backlogged vouchers, filling their trolley with food items, then having the vouchers declined and leaving with nothing, returning to this food cupboard:


  


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52551464


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
SJV
07 May 2020 10:51:22


 


You'll be disappointed if you go Sunday. 


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


So will the girls if it's gonna be that cold 🍆

SJV
07 May 2020 10:54:00


Scandalous


Parents who have had to wait weeks due to huge problems with the free school meals voucher scheme (outsourced to a private company - ahem, Quantum) are finding that even now their vouchers have arrived, they frequently aren't accepted at tills.


One heartbreaking story a woman and her daughter getting the bus to a Tesco after receiving their backlogged vouchers, filling their trolley with food items, then having the vouchers declined and leaving with nothing, returning to this food cupboard:


  


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52551464


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



Why is every scheme we set up beset by so many issues? I get that there might be kinks in systems as we rush to implement them but this was back in late March and there are still problems. I'm not surprised some are abandoning it, it's unacceptable.


 

Saint Snow
07 May 2020 10:54:29



Epidemiologist Professor Johan Giesecke writes in The Lancet


“… facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.”



Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


 


It was explained clearly at the time that the restrictions were imposed in order to a) prevent the NHS becoming overwhelmed and us facing a similar situation to areas of Northern Italy where people were dropping like flies and there weren't enough facilities to treat, leading to a severe spike in deaths. That was contained there with lockdown measures, and some patients were transferred to hospitals in other regions; imagine, though, that scenario where the entire country faced an overwhelming number of cases in a short space of time where hospitals were full and people were just dying where they lay without treatment. And b) to buy time for potentially better treatments and, ultimately, a vaccine.


Nobody ever said that the restrictions would conquer Covid.


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gooner
07 May 2020 10:54:54



Epidemiologist Professor Johan Giesecke writes in The Lancet


“… facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.”



Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Oh dear but most experts are forecasting another bout hitting us 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Maunder Minimum
07 May 2020 10:56:44


Parents who have had to wait weeks due to huge problems with the free school meals voucher scheme (outsourced to a private company - ahem, Quantum) are finding that even now their vouchers have arrived, they frequently aren't accepted at tills.


One heartbreaking story a woman and her daughter getting the bus to a Tesco after receiving their backlogged vouchers, filling their trolley with food items, then having the vouchers declined and leaving with nothing, returning to this food cupboard:



  


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52551464


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


The problem with articles like this is that it does not provide any analysis of how many people are having no issues with the vouchers.


If 5% have issues, that is a great shame for those affected, but it does not amount to a systemic issue.


If 50% have issues, then there is a systemic problem which needs to be addressed urgently.


New world order coming.
Brian Gaze
07 May 2020 10:57:25



Epidemiologist Professor Johan Giesecke writes in The Lancet


“… facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.”



Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Until we have widespread antibody testing it will be impossible to know whether this is correct and / or what are the implications. I still don't know why the UK government hasn't got the antibody testing programme rolling yet. Is it purely down to incompetence or is lack of resources and capacity holding us back?


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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