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Bugglesgate
11 May 2020 07:13:10


People have suggested that the correct way of doing things would be to have had debate and questions in parliament, publication of the 50 page document, and then Johnson to do the speech this evening. That would have seemed better to me. Regarding people's reactions, I think part of the problem is that the speech had been built up as the big answer to everyone's questions and it didn't. Also agree with Chidog, acting as normal is easy to understand, lockdown is easy to understand, places in between the two are more complicated but it is an area which you are going to have to venture into at some point.


Originally Posted by: JHutch 


Indeed.


The problems  though are apparent contradictions in :-


 



  • People who cannot work from home should return to the workplace - but avoid public transport

  • People should try to stay at home as much as possible


If Public Transport is your only mode of transport, which takes precedence ?


Additionally, by all accounts even a fully up and running Public Transport system  will only  have circa 10% of its  usual capacity.  In an area like  Greater London (the countries economic power house)  commuting is overwhelmingly by Public Transport.  This implies  some kind of rationing   will have to be implemented but on what basis ?  Economic importance of your activity ?  First come, first served ? 


Walking and bicycle use are all very well, but not practical for a lot of people.


 


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
Gavin D
11 May 2020 07:13:35

As I've said on many occasions test results are not coming back quickly. 7 day in some areas and here is proof from Ipswich



An Ipswich key worker was shocked to find her coronavirus test results would take up to 10 days to be returned – almost a long as she had to self-isolate.






 
 
 
https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/rushmere-mum-coronavirus-test-result-delay-1-6645809


DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
11 May 2020 07:13:51


People have suggested that the correct way of doing things would be to have had debate and questions in parliament, publication of the 50 page document, and then Johnson to do the speech this evening. That would have seemed better to me. Regarding people's reactions, I think part of the problem is that the speech had been built up as the big answer to everyone's questions and it didn't. Also agree with Chidog, acting as normal is easy to understand, lockdown is easy to understand, places in between the two are more complicated but it is an area which you are going to have to venture into at some point.


Originally Posted by: JHutch 



War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
marco 79
11 May 2020 07:15:36
The political divisions of the UK are becoming more apparent . We seem to have a Prime Minister just for England , who of which is leading the country to disaster without justifiable measures of more testing and tracing as the confusing, anxiety inducing steps of a lighter lockdown emerge..brilliant !!!
Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
Gavin D
11 May 2020 07:16:54

Justin W
11 May 2020 07:18:44

Raab falling to pieces on R4 now. Hopeless.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
NMA
  • NMA
  • Advanced Member
11 May 2020 07:19:07

The political divisions of the UK are becoming more apparent. We seem to have a Prime Minister just for England , who of which is leading the country to disaster without justifiable measures of more testing and tracing as the confusing, anxiety inducing steps of a lighter lockdown emerge..brilliant !!!

Originally Posted by: marco 79 


Indeed we have a Kingdom in name but one that is not United.


Vale of the Great Dairies
South Dorset
Elevation 60m 197ft
JHutch
11 May 2020 07:19:30


 


Indeed.


The problems  though are apparent contradictions in :-


 



  • People who cannot work from home should return to the workplace - but avoid public transport

  • People should try to stay at home as much as possible


If Public Transport is your only mode of transport, which takes precedence ?


Additionally, by all accounts even a fully up and running Public Transport system  will only  have circa 10% of its  usual capacity.  In an area like  Greater London (the countries economic power house)  commuting is overwhelmingly by Public Transport.  This implies  some kind of rationing   will have to be implemented but on what basis ?  Economic importance of your activity ?  First come, first served ? 


Walking and bicycle use are all very well, but not practical for a lot of people.


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


Yep, i agree, many people rely on public transport to get to work so avoiding it is not really an option. From my own point of view i would likely walk to work and run home (5 miles) but appreciate that not everyone can do that, especially if living further out. I imagine there will be some pretty crowded tube photos coming up in the coming days.

Justin W
11 May 2020 07:21:28

Raab keeps saying "we've been very clear"!


Mishail Husain eviscerating him 


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Gavin D
11 May 2020 07:22:10
People arriving into the UK from the Republic of Ireland will be exempt from the 14-day quarantine measures along with those arriving from France.
Joe Bloggs
11 May 2020 07:26:08


Had Prime Minister Gaze made the speech last night it would have been very short and to the point. Highlights below:


Nothing is changing. Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives. We will review again in 3 weeks time.


The reasons for this are that scaling up contact tracing and antibody testing are both taking longer than we expected. However, progress is being made on both fronts. In addition we will be implementing a national randomised antigen testing programme to establish the current rate of infection.


The number of infections is falling but it is not yet at a manageable level. Therefore, to crush this virus to a level we can control the same rules must continue to apply. The economic cost is huge but it will be even higher if we ease now and have to slam on the brakes again in a few weeks or months.  


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


“....and we will continue the furlough scheme and all methods of Government support until the lockdown is eased.”



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
11 May 2020 07:26:53

When Johnson stated last night:


"I have consulted across the political spectrum, across all four nations of the UK. "


Judging from the bewilderment expressed by leaders of other three nations and other political leaders that I've seen since the speech, then either they are all lying or Johnson is.


 


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Justin W
11 May 2020 07:28:50

Raab spent much of the interview saying that the relaxations announced last night would not come into effect until Wednesday. I suspect a reverse ferret is being prepared.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Chidog
11 May 2020 07:33:38


Had Prime Minister Gaze made the speech last night it would have been very short and to the point. Highlights below:


Nothing is changing. Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives. We will review again in 3 weeks time.


The reasons for this are that scaling up contact tracing and antibody testing are both taking longer than we expected. However, progress is being made on both fronts. In addition we will be implementing a national randomised antigen testing programme to establish the current rate of infection.


The number of infections is falling but it is not yet at a manageable level. Therefore, to crush this virus to a level we can control the same rules must continue to apply. The economic cost is huge but it will be even higher if we ease now and have to slam on the brakes again in a few weeks or months.  


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Fwiw agree with all of this but then the same clarity problems with easing the lockdown are revisited in three weeks time. The lockdown message is easy; it's what comes after that is hard

Brian Gaze
11 May 2020 07:41:13


 


Fwiw agree with all of this but then the same clarity problems with easing the lockdown are revisited in three weeks time. The lockdown message is easy; it's what comes after that is hard


Originally Posted by: Chidog 


I agree. However, the tools to manage the easing need to be in place. 1) More data to determine the current level of infection (randomised antigen and antibody testing) 2) Testing and mass contact tracing. Without them a very difficult task becomes an impossible one. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Roger Parsons
11 May 2020 07:45:07


Precisely!


“There was no detail but people won’t read the details”


There in a nutshell is the problem: there’s a bandwagon rolling to suit every negative interpretation.


It was not a great effort and the timing was abysmal: why a Sunday evening? But there’s no pleasing some folk.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I despair, Gandalf! Many folks don't heed the existing messages on food ingredients/Traffic Light scores, or the warning notices on tobacco or alcohol. What chance they will get the small print in the cov-exit strategy? The statistics below tell the story.


"4 Apr 2019 - In total, poor diet was found to be responsible for 90,000 deaths in the UK a year – around one seventh of the 607,000 fatalities annually." [Telegraph]


"Every year around 78,000 people in the UK die from smoking, with many more living with debilitating smoking-related illnesses. Smoking increases your risk of developing more than 50 serious health conditions." [NHS]


"In the UK, in 2016 there were 9,214 alcohol-related deaths (around 15 per 100,000 people). The mortality rates are highest among people aged 55-69 [4]. In the UK in 2018 there were 7,551 alcohol-specific deaths (around 11.9 per 100,000 people)." [AlcoholChange]


To be sure there will be overlaps and confounding underlying factors here - but if we speak of 250,000 deaths per annum attributable to these causes we won't be far out. This total could have been substantially reduced by public compliance.


Sadly I expect many of these deaths will be people who for some reason could be characterised as "vulnerable."


R


 


Roger


RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
11 May 2020 07:46:43


 


Well this is the nub of the problem isn't it. Boris's task was to summarise an incredibly complex scientific and social problem, one which normally involve lots of complicated calculations of R, movement of people, transport loads, mixing in shops, etc etc, and crystallise it into a 400-500 word message that would reassure Trev from Clacton that he wouldn't lose his job whilst showing some possible tentative way out of lockdown.


The previous message was clear, the question has always been what should follow that. No one, including the government or anyone on here has come up with an effective exit plan. Particularly in London it is virtually impossible to co-ordinate a valid response for getting people back to work and maintain distancing whilst not shutting down for probably close to a year at best. I'm not sure anyone else has worked it out in similarly laid out cities either which is why Madrid, Paris etc remain closed. So what is the way out? 


Originally Posted by: Chidog 

  It’s everyone’s responsibility to look after themselves so nitpicking and squabbling about minor points is fruitless, so is cherry picking ( oh hang on, that is fruit ).  This shouldn’t be a political row that divides us, it’s a national emergency that we’re all fighting and someone has to lead in that.


I think everyone on here is intelligent enough to comprehend the speech.  There will be idiots who flout the rules but that’s up to them. If they pick up the virus, they should be no threat to those of us who are vigilant, wash hands, stay 2 metres away etc. 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
The Beast from the East
11 May 2020 07:48:07


Raab spent much of the interview saying that the relaxations announced last night would not come into effect until Wednesday. I suspect a reverse ferret is being prepared.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Unusually I got up early today, woken by the bin men, so I decided to go for a drive to the park, and its already busy with what looked like family members from different households meeting up


People aren't going to wait till Wednesday


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
JHutch
11 May 2020 07:50:54

Polling by yougov of 6564 people. Very close between support and opposition for the changes (at least in a general sense). Perhaps noteworthy that the retired are very largely in favour by 53% to 31% while the working age population is less so. Only 30% seem to think that the new slogan is clear at the moment. Rather strangely the crossbreaks are by how people voted in the 2017 election rather than the 2019 election, assume that will be changed at some point.


 


Do you oppose or support the changes (see link for exact question)


Support 44%


Oppose  43%


 


Do the lockdown changes go


46% too far


35% about right


10% not far enough


 


Which of the slogans are clear (see link for exact phrasing)


63% only 'stay at home, etc'


28% both


2% only 'stay alert'


7% neither


https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/h6nwhcsrrv/GMBResults_200511.pdf

Gavin D
11 May 2020 07:53:05
A 50-page document will be released at 2pm it's expected to contain a list of which workers can return to work
The Beast from the East
11 May 2020 07:54:31


This shouldn’t be a political row that divides us, it’s a national emergency that we’re all fighting and someone has to lead in that.


I think everyone on here is intelligent enough to comprehend the speech.  There will be idiots who flout the rules but that’s up to them. If they pick up the virus, they should be no threat to those of us who are vigilant, wash hands, stay 2 metres away etc. 


Originally Posted by: Caz 


This is not China. This is a democracy (just about) and we allowed to question the govt


The speech was an incoherent mess, unless you are a Tory voter, in which case it rivalled the Gettysburg address


If someone picks up the virus because of this relaxation, washing hands and being vigilant is not going to protect you for the same reasons the virus spread in the first place


I despair at the forelock tugging displayed by people I respect


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gavin D
11 May 2020 07:58:07

westv
11 May 2020 08:01:04


 


I despair, Gandalf! Many folks don't heed the existing messages on food ingredients/Traffic Light scores, or the warning notices on tobacco or alcohol. What chance they will get the small print in the cov-exit strategy? The statistics below tell the story.


 


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


The difference is that one set of information affects the individual whereas the other affects everybody.


At least it will be mild!
Gavin D
11 May 2020 08:01:57



The Beast from the East
11 May 2020 08:03:35


 


However, the tools to manage the easing need to be in place. 1) More data to determine the current level of infection (randomised antigen and antibody testing) 2) Testing and mass contact tracing. Without them a very difficult task becomes an impossible one. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


We are sending swabs to America to be tested! Some are taking 10 days to get results. We haven't had mail deliveries since Thursday due to the Bank holiday and Saturday delivery suspended. 


Its a farce


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President

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