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Maunder Minimum
13 May 2020 12:06:15


 


 


It's just so random. This is what strikes me the most about this virus; millions have had it with absolutely no symptoms, even more have just mild symptoms. Others seem to have been exposed to it repeatedly but not caught it. Yet a small minority - yes, most with underlying medical issues or are very old, but certainly not all - have the infection become really serious and either make them seriously ill or kills them.


The Russian roulette element is so scary.


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I wrote earlier that the vast majority of younger people with decent health and no apparent underlying conditions, can get the virus either asymptomatically or else suffering little more than you would with a dose of flu.


There are a few outliers who suffer as badly as Nick Codero- the medical experts need to investigate these cases fully to see whether there is a genetic marker which can make some people more susceptible, or is it otherwise that these outliers have some underlying conditions which had previously gone undetected?


It is important to understand these cases, since if an underlying factor can be established, those at risk could be detected and warned.


New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
13 May 2020 12:07:11

Boris Johnson has said 144 NHS workers and 131 social care workers have died from Covid-19 so far

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


That in itself should bring down any PM, but this ++ seems to get a free pass on anything


Most of these deaths are preventable. In Germany, no health worker has died 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
13 May 2020 12:13:27


 


That in itself should bring down any PM, but this ++ seems to get a free pass on anything


Most of these deaths are preventable. In Germany, no health worker has died 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I don't appreciate the word you have used to refer to the Prime Minister.


Germany is an outlier - our figures are in the same range as for France, Italy and Spain.


The key thing the UK government has achieved is to get through this wave of the pandemic without the NHS being overwhelmed - we  should at least be grateful for that.


New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
13 May 2020 12:13:41


 


It's present throughout life, of course.


What if you slip in the shower? What if you're in a car accident on the way to work? What if you have a stroke out of the blue and die?


(In my case, the first hasn't happened, the second happened last October as a guy pulled out of a side junction onto the main road and I couldn't stop in time - he did a runner, and the third affected my mum, who had a sudden stroke and died aged 48).


If the risk is negligable, as it seems to be in this case, I'd say it's not worth fretting over.


(First you'd have to catch covid, then develop a cytokine storm and die - the first is of course unlikely but not impossible, the second, if you're under 60 or so is exceptionally unlikely).


It doesn't mean it isn't a risk, but just as two people win a million on premium bonds every month, or a million on Euromillions twice a week, so some younger, no-known-medical-conditions people will die from covid. They're just incredibly unlucky is all.


EDIT: And as Maunder says below, any such deaths should be thoroughly investigated in the hope we can learn more from them.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Did the police ever catch him? Were you injured?


It's not dying that you and I need to worry about (though I probably am at risk, being a fat fucker!), its the virus doing other long term damage to your body that Hutch mentioned earlier


If you look at our PM, he is clearly not the same man he was


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
13 May 2020 12:16:55


 


I don't appreciate the word you have used to refer to the Prime Minister.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


What about "piccaninie with a water melon smile"?


Or "Tank topped Bum Boy"


Or "letter boxes and bank-robbers" 


and many more examples.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Retron
13 May 2020 12:17:23


Did the police ever catch him? Were you injured?


It's not dying that you and I need to worry about (though I probably am at risk, being a fat fucker!), its the virus doing other long term damage to your body that Hutch mentioned earlier


If you look at our PM, he is clearly not the same man he was


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


The police sent me a nice email a week later saying that there were no leads, so they were dropping the case. (It was a blond guy, late teens / early 20s, driving a small early 2000s 3-door red VW hatchback car, with a stoved-in drivers door - I didn't get the reg number). I wasn't injured as it was a very low speed collision - even so, the bumper replacement cost my insurer over £1800... and even with protected no-claims, it made my insurance go up by £60 a year. Not impressed and I hope he got a rollocking for it from his wife/parents/partner!


As for after effects, I would wager most wouldn't notice much afterwards, although as ever more research would be useful. Remember that a bad dose of regular flu can cause all sorts of after-effects too... esecially in terms of lung capacity and similar issues.


Leysdown, north Kent
Saint Snow
13 May 2020 12:18:46


There are a few outliers who suffer as badly as Nick Codero- the medical experts need to investigate these cases fully to see whether there is a genetic marker which can make some people more susceptible, or is it otherwise that these outliers have some underlying conditions which had previously gone undetected?


It is important to understand these cases, since if an underlying factor can be established, those at risk could be detected and warned.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


 


I absolutely agree. I said when that 13 year old lad died early in the crisis that they should perform a full autopsy. But they didn't, and allowed that stupid idiocy called 'religious practice' to get in the way and they had him 6 foot under within 48 hours. 


A full autopsy could have given clues as to why a minority of apparently healthy people with no underlying conditions are hit so hard. But no, religion and all that - and you can't offend the religious f***wits.


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Saint Snow
13 May 2020 12:20:37


I don't appreciate the word you have used to refer to the Prime Minister.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


 


If the cap fits...


Anyway, you used to mock a PM for having previously lost an eye. Your highhorse had its legs chopped off long ago.


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
13 May 2020 12:21:17


From the start, when I've done shopping for my parents (generally twice a week), I've taken it into their house and we've chatted - at +2m distance - for 15-30 mins. On occasion, the kids have accompanied me.


Most weeks, they've also visited our house once a week and parked up. My dad gets out of his car ad stands, my mum stays in sat down. We all maintain a safe distance and have a chat. The last 3 weeks, my dad has also come to collect our dog and take it back to theirs for a few hours.


Last Friday when they visited, I suggested they come through to the back garden and we all spent a good hour chatting - again, all at safe distance. My dad had a pint and my mum a cuppa. 


I know some of the above is, strictly speaking, against the 'rules' and it will nudge up the risk factor - although from nil to negligible. 


There has to be a balance between staying safe and trying to maintain some of the things in life that sustain you emotionally.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

  You know what Saint!  I think that’s a simple case of common sense and if everyone is honest, most will be doing the same!  


If my parents were alive, I’d be doing exactly the same and my kids are doing it with us.  They usually bring shopping but only because I can always find something I want, though not necessarily need.  But I always want to see them!  I can put up with not having a hug now.  It creased me to begin with but at least I can see them.


We’re pushing boundaries but to safe limits.  It’s no different from being in a supermarket with other people, in fact it’s much safer!  I am quite sure the powers that be know we’re all doing this but turn a blind eye and I think they expected it.


If they’d allowed this from the beginning, we’d have pushed the boundaries, as we do, even further and into unsafe territory.  Yes, we’ve seen the media reports!  Some are pushing beyond safe limits, the few not using common sense and imagine how much further they’d go given a chance!  


I really do think it’s about using your noddle!


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Brian Gaze
13 May 2020 12:22:12


With holidays abroad unlikely, for the sensible anyway, for those that can afford I can see an uptick in motorhomes here where you can travel to most places, and have little worry about the accomodation.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Each to their own but I'd sooner sit in the garden than go down the motorhome / caravan route.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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doctormog
13 May 2020 12:25:43


 


Most of these deaths are preventable. In Germany, no health worker has died 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


According to the RKI at least 8 German health workers have died. 


A second point is that the ONS data have shown:




  • Healthcare workers, including those with jobs such as doctors and nurses, were not found to have higher rates of death involving COVID-19 when compared with the rate among those whose death involved COVID-19 of the same age and sex in the general population.




https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregistereduptoandincluding20april2020


Yes of course the current picture in Germany is and indeed has been better than the U.K. but get your facts straight.


The Beast from the East
13 May 2020 12:27:06


 


 


Germany is an outlier - our figures are in the same range as for France, Italy and Spain.


The key thing the UK government has achieved is to get through this wave of the pandemic without the NHS being overwhelmed - we  should at least be grateful for that.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


And most other countries apart from the ones you mention! Just because America, Russia, Brazil, Italy, Spain and France have done badly too, doesn't make it OK!


Yes, the families of the hundreds of dead NHS, social care, transport and other frontline workers should be grateful. It's too bad their loved ones died because they were sent to the front line without proper PPE


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
westv
13 May 2020 12:28:50


 


Each to their own but I'd sooner sit in the garden than go down the motorhome / caravan route.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Same here. If it doesn't include a concierge then it's not for me.


At least it will be mild!
Bugglesgate
13 May 2020 12:36:44


 


Each to their own but I'd sooner sit in the garden than go down the motorhome / caravan route.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 



 


I can't think of anything worse than trundling about the countryside   in a motorhome or caravan to be honest - everyone hates  you and it's a pain in the arse for you - I mean, what's to like  ?


An old boss of mine  brought a  huge Motorhome (2 stories) and decided to go to Cornwall in it.  His fuel bill was stupendous, and he spent most of the week going backwards down  narrow rocked lined roads.   He sold the ruddy thing shortly afterwards and  the next year they booked a nice hotel in Tuscany  


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
The Beast from the East
13 May 2020 12:36:54


 


According to the RKI at least 8 German health workers have died. 


A second point is that the ONS data have shown:




  • Healthcare workers, including those with jobs such as doctors and nurses, were not found to have higher rates of death involving COVID-19 when compared with the rate among those whose death involved COVID-19 of the same age and sex in the general population.




https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregistereduptoandincluding20april2020


Yes of course the current picture in Germany is and indeed has been better than the U.K. but get your facts straight.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Fair enough, but I did read an article recently that said no deaths had occurred, so perhaps the deaths were counted more recently, But the wider point I made  is still valid. In South Korea, I believe its correct to say that no healthcare worker has died


As for the ONS, many of the dead NHS staff were in the older category anyway, so perhaps that's why? But the point stands that if they caught the virus in their place of work, then that's the fault of their employer for not providing adequate PPE


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
13 May 2020 12:42:11


Same here. If it doesn't include a concierge then it's not for me.


Originally Posted by: westv 

Well, I’m not fussy!  A change is as good as a rest.  Yes, give me a concierge please but if that’s not possible, I’d take a camping holiday!  My holidays are always an adventure, they’re what I make them and who I go with!  We’ve had our days of towing a caravan all around the UK and France and we’ve done canvas too!  The all inclusive Caribbean holidays, cruising etc.  All very enjoyable in their own way. 


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
The Beast from the East
13 May 2020 12:57:13


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gavin D
13 May 2020 12:57:55
Wales has reported 133 new cases and 22 new deaths
Gavin D
13 May 2020 13:02:23

UK data



  • Number of tests - 87,063

  • People tested - 61,741

  • Positive tests - 3,242

  • All settings deaths - 494

Gavin D
13 May 2020 13:03:28
NHS England has reported 244 new hospital deaths down from 366 yesterday

Last Wednesday. NHS England reported 331 new hospital deaths
Gavin D
13 May 2020 13:04:04
Scotland has reported 166 new cases and 61 new deaths
Gavin D
13 May 2020 13:09:44
The UK has reported 494 all setting deaths last Wednesday the UK reported 649 deaths
Rob K
13 May 2020 13:22:04


Well, I’m not fussy!  A change is as good as a rest.  Yes, give me a concierge please but if that’s not possible, I’d take a camping holiday!  My holidays are always an adventure, they’re what I make them and who I go with!  We’ve had our days of towing a caravan all around the UK and France and we’ve done canvas too!  The all inclusive Caribbean holidays, cruising etc.  All very enjoyable in their own way. 


Originally Posted by: Caz 


When the weather warms up again we will probably put the tent up in the garden and have a "camping weekend". The kids will enjoy it, and so will I to be honest.

(Of course it helps when you know there is a shower, cooker and well-stocked fridge just indoors... and a bed if you get desperate!)


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gavin D
13 May 2020 13:22:31

Today's data shows the earliest reported death in England is March 27th whilst May 11th has the largest single day total


Rob K
13 May 2020 13:23:29
I asked this earlier but don't think anyone had any thoughts:

Regarding the latest exercise guidance in England, can anyone explain....
If a household group are allowed out to exercise together or sit in the park etc, but have to keep 2 metres away from any other groups of people, how is that different from meeting more than one other person from another household, as you still have to keep 2 metres away from them?

Answers on a postcard please.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

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