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Ally Pally Snowman
21 December 2023 07:25:13
We await inspiration.  But the GEFS have been getting milder and milder. A 6c CET looks certain now which is remarkable after such a cold first week.

UserPostedImage

 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
21 December 2023 07:42:17
WX temp charts less good for coldies than yesterday. Week 1 has all of Europe (exc Scandinavia) well above norm and Siberia very much so, and the advance of freezing weather in week 2 more muted than shown yesterday - somewhat cooler into E Germany and the Scottish Highlands but the freezing weather is still E of Poland. Pptn in week 1 from the Atlantic across Britain and into N Europe; in week 2 much the same, but heavier and additionally down the Adriatic.

GFS Op - HP mid-Atlantic and LP Scandinavia with pressure gradient giving the present storm. Over the next few day, up to Wed 27th the HP moves SE to the Med and declines while the LP moves NE and fills, so a mild and not extreme W-ly over Christmas. The next LP then approaches W Scotland and moves to S Ireland 970mb Sat 30th breaking up into an extended N-S trough over the N Sea with a not-very-convincing N-ly spell through to Fri 5th. Then 1030mb HP centred Cornwall but covering Britain Sat 6th Jan to finish.

ECM - differs from GFS after Wed 27th with a shallow LP in the W-lies crossing N England 990mb Thu 28th and a deeper LP further off, 965mb Faeroes Sun 31st but with strong NW-lies for all.

GEFS - very mild for Christmas Day, cooling soon after in a couple of steps to norm by Fri 29th after which any agreement between ens members breaks up; individual members either side of norm, perhaps a majority indicating colder around New Year. Rain in the S from Christmas Day onwards, some big totals in just a few runs later. In the N, esp NE, a heavy fall on Sat 23rd, more just after Christmas but becoming drier later. Chances of snow poor in the Highlands, negligible elsewhere.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
doctormog
21 December 2023 07:47:40

WX temp charts less good for coldies than yesterday. Week 1 has all of Europe (exc Scandinavia) well above norm and Siberia very much so, and the advance of freezing weather in week 2 more muted than shown yesterday - somewhat cooler into E Germany and the Scottish Highlands but the freezing weather is still E of Poland. Pptn in week 1 from the Atlantic across Britain and into N Europe; in week 2 much the same, but heavier and additionally down the Adriatic.

GFS Op - HP mid-Atlantic and LP Scandinavia with pressure gradient giving the present storm. Over the next few day, up to Wed 27th the HP moves SE to the Med and declines while the LP moves NE and fills, so a mild and not extreme W-ly over Christmas. The next LP then approaches W Scotland and moves to S Ireland 970mb Sat 30th breaking up into an extended N-S trough over the N Sea with a not-very-convincing N-ly spell through to Fri 5th. Then 1030mb HP centred Cornwall but covering Britain Sat 6th Jan to finish.

ECM - differs from GFS after Wed 27th with a shallow LP in the W-lies crossing N England 990mb Thu 28th and a deeper LP further off, 965mb Faeroes Sun 31st but with strong NW-lies for all.

GEFS - very mild for Christmas Day, cooling soon after in a couple of steps to norm by Fri 29th after which any agreement between ens members breaks up; individual members either side of norm, perhaps a majority indicating colder around New Year. Rain in the S from Christmas Day onwards, some big totals in just a few runs later. In the N, esp NE, a heavy fall on Sat 23rd, more just after Christmas but becoming drier later. Chances of snow poor in the Highlands, negligible elsewhere.

Originally Posted by: DEW 



Really? This is the snow probability chart for Christmas Day and it would suggest the chances of the snow falling in most of the Highlands is high (not poor) even if it is negligible elsewhere:

UserPostedImage
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
21 December 2023 07:59:01

Really? This is the snow probability chart for Christmas Day and it would suggest the chances of the snow falling in most of the Highlands is high (not poor) even if it is negligible elsewhere:

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

All I have time for is a quick look through the snow row figures which average about 10/33 for Inverness so I have to rely on locals to add further detail.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Brian Gaze
21 December 2023 08:01:18
Surely one the mildest Christmas Eve's across the UK on record if this is correct?

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Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gandalf The White
21 December 2023 08:14:37

Surely one the mildest Christmas Eve's across the UK on record if this is correct?

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



Followed by a notably mild night for much of England, with midnight temperatures still around 11c-13c and still in double digits as morning breaks.

GFS still signalling a steady seeping south of colder air through Xmas Day, with low single digits in the south by the end of the day.
 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Ally Pally Snowman
21 December 2023 08:19:57

Surely one the mildest Christmas Eve's across the UK on record if this is correct?

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



15.6c is the date record in Rhyl 1910. So will be very close. 
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gandalf The White
21 December 2023 08:22:02
UKMO has a very similar picture for Xmas Eve and Xmas Day.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Retron
21 December 2023 08:24:24

Surely one the mildest Christmas Eve's across the UK on record if this is correct?

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


The record is 15.6, so not a million miles away...
(Data via Torro)

15.6 Rhyl (Denbighshire) 1910
Aberdeen 1931
Craibstone (Aberdeenshire) 1931
Banff (Aberdeenshire) 1931
Gordon Castle (Moray) 1931
15.5 Bude (Cornwall) 1997
15.1 Torquay Abbey Park (Devon) 2002
Leysdown, north Kent
Gandalf The White
21 December 2023 08:28:04

15.6c is the date record in Rhyl 1910. So will be very close. 
 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



It looks like a windy day with overcast skies; I’m not sure the conditions will be favourable for new records but we’ll see.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Saint Snow
21 December 2023 09:12:32

Followed by a notably mild night for much of England, with midnight temperatures still around 11c-13c and still in double digits as morning breaks.
 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 




Santa making his deliveries in shorts and t-shirt?

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Downpour
21 December 2023 09:14:19

Surely one the mildest Christmas Eve's across the UK on record if this is correct?

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



Indeed Brian. The question on everybody’s lips is whether a 15c can be breached somewhere. It could be a close run thing. 
Chingford
London E4
147ft
Saint Snow
21 December 2023 09:30:14

Indeed Brian. The question on everybody’s lips is whether a 15c can be breached somewhere. It could be a close run thing. 

Originally Posted by: Downpour 




Question on my lips is "why do we have to have such a shite climate?"

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Jayni C
21 December 2023 09:32:34

The record is 15.6, so not a million miles away...
(Data via Torro)

15.6 Rhyl (Denbighshire) 1910
Aberdeen 1931
Craibstone (Aberdeenshire) 1931
Banff (Aberdeenshire) 1931
Gordon Castle (Moray) 1931
15.5 Bude (Cornwall) 1997
15.1 Torquay Abbey Park (Devon) 2002

Originally Posted by: Retron 



It would only have taken 113 years to match/surpass the record of 15.6c

Global warming eh ?
Gandalf The White
21 December 2023 09:53:35

Question on my lips is "why do we have to have such a shite climate?"

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



Geography?

Some people in Seattle seem to have a similar view about their climate.

https://theoatmeal.com/blog/seattle_weather 

😄
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


The Beast from the East
21 December 2023 10:00:53
GEM op continues to tease, though not much support

An SSW seems to be the only way to get cold to NW Europe in these days of climate change, perhaps some nice charts will show up over the Xmas period , lack of data myths aside!
 
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Brian Gaze
21 December 2023 10:45:06
I've just created a thread for OT posts here:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/Posts/m1556142-Off-topic-posts 

 
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gandalf The White
21 December 2023 10:48:22


The cumulative rainfall chart shows just how much rain will fall if those charts verify. The ‘driest’ spots get 25mm (NE England); East Anglia about 50mm, high ground in Wales, northern England and Scotland get 120-150 with a max of 200.  

Coming on top of a very wet autumn and early winter that’s not good.  Talking to a local farmer here he was saying he can’t get onto the fields because they’re completely waterlogged. The field behind our barn is still half flooded.

Warmer oceans + warmer air = more rainfall.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


doctormog
21 December 2023 12:11:43

All I have time for is a quick look through the snow row figures which average about 10/33 for Inverness so I have to rely on locals to add further detail.

Originally Posted by: DEW 



That's fair enough (although I'm not that near the Highlands). For comparison the 06z GEFS suite has a lower probability shown for the same time period.
CField
21 December 2023 13:37:36
UserPostedImageshould be a nice range of green shoots sprouting early January in the south...even in the mildest of winters the proximity to cold is often fairly close to see
Favourite snowstorm
Famous channel low
Dec 31st 1978
Hastings East Sussex
Foot of level snow severe drifting
Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius
Brian Gaze
21 December 2023 15:40:46
Please refrain from personal comments and stay on topic.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
MRayner
21 December 2023 16:52:15
The low pressure shown transiting across northern England on the 27/28 could cause some wintery fun for some, might be a named storm if intensity shown is correct.
 
Location Whisky 🥃 country, Cragganmore ,Moray, 440 AMSL
doctormog
21 December 2023 16:55:18

The low pressure shown transiting across northern England on the 27/28 could cause some wintery fun for some, might be a named storm if intensity shown is correct.
 

Originally Posted by: MRayner 



Yes this would an interesting scenario. With an easterly influence the Angus hills could get a wintry equivalent of the wet weather they have had recently. https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPUK12_150_53.png 

I suspect there may be a lot volatility over the next few days in the output for that period.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
21 December 2023 17:14:43

If the ECM 00z has it right, flooding could be a real issue next week!!


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 



GFS on board with this, too
https://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=18&run=12&time=192&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=6#mapref 

I have difficulties with colour vision but it looks to me like 2" - 4" for the whole of Britain 25th - 29th Dec, with Scotland getting extra as it starts earlier there.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl

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