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CField
19 November 2024 16:53:24
The mighty heights to the south do seem to keep a recurring pattern of being undercut by low pressure so far this year....gives rise to more hope that pattern changes may happen more frequently this coming winter.....
Favourite snowstorm
Famous channel low
Dec 31st 1978
Hastings East Sussex
Foot of level snow severe drifting
Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius
Taylor1740
19 November 2024 17:02:05
On to the next chase for cold then, still 11 days until Winter even begins. Still not seeing much sign yet of persistent zonality setting up, will likely be mid-December when that pattern forms though which is why we hardly ever get a cold spell in the core of the Winter mid-Dec to mid-Jan.
NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Retron
19 November 2024 18:04:08

On to the next chase for cold then, still 11 days until Winter even begins. Still not seeing much sign yet of persistent zonality setting up, will likely be mid-December when that pattern forms though which is why we hardly ever get a cold spell in the core of the Winter mid-Dec to mid-Jan.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 


Before that chase we still have winds to get through... the MetO raw continues to ramp things up, now peaking at 56 down here on Saturday, with 15 hours of >50mph winds to look forward to.

While it may not sound impressively strong, the duration is remarkable. Normally we only get a few hours at most of strong winds, with a more typical "strong gusts around the cold front" setup. This time round we'll be under a warm sector, making it even more unusual!

EDIT: The 12z GFS continues to be worse, too, showing 39 hours of >50mph winds here. Yuck.
Leysdown, north Kent
idj20
19 November 2024 22:02:41

Before that chase we still have winds to get through... the MetO raw continues to ramp things up, now peaking at 56 down here on Saturday, with 15 hours of >50mph winds to look forward to.

While it may not sound impressively strong, the duration is remarkable. Normally we only get a few hours at most of strong winds, with a more typical "strong gusts around the cold front" setup. This time round we'll be under a warm sector, making it even more unusual!

EDIT: The 12z GFS continues to be worse, too, showing 39 hours of >50mph winds here. Yuck.

Originally Posted by: Retron 


Almost two straight days of in-your-face southerlies gales doesn't sound appealing. Thankfully it isn't that exceptional stuff and even the rain part does look like being downgraded bit by bit at least for my neck of the woods. Still, if it has to turn like this, might as well put it to good use being over the weekend with the drunks coming out of the nearby night club. 😂
Folkestone Harbour. 
Chunky Pea
19 November 2024 23:08:12
Increasing consensus on the EC suite tonight for a return to much milder conditions returning for the end of November and into December. 
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Ally Pally Snowman
20 November 2024 08:10:26
After the cold spell maybe some record warmth this weekend.  The 24th record is only 17.2c. Looks under serious threat.
https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=20&model=gfs&var=17&run=0&time=111&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=3#mapref 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
20 November 2024 08:14:29
Revert to standard type across the range of models this morning

Poor
Berkshire
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
20 November 2024 08:14:56
WX charts - week 1, a two-pronged attack of cold air from Russia towards N Britain and also down to the Alps, with the Baltic a little milder. In week 2,the cold extends to fill in the gap round the Baltic, and across to E France. If anything, Britain is a touch milder. Pptn generally over Europe in week 1, specially heavy for W Britain. In week 2, the pptn clears to the NW (not quite leaving W Scotland) and to SE Europe, leaving a dry area from N Norway through the N Sea and on down to Spain.

GFS Op 0z - the main cold LP is currently 970mb Finland with a couple of minor disturbances in the N-ly flow tomorrow; one looking flabby in the N Sea, another more focused 985mb Brittany which could bring some snow to the moors in the SW. All clears E-wards before a very deep depression sets up Sat 23rd 945mb Rockall with SW-ly gales for all (GFS doesn't show front but FAX has these zooming through across Britain and out of the way on Sunday). This fills slowly as it moves across the far N of Scotland and leaves a default ridge of HP over Britain Wed 27th. This HP moves to Norway with a ridge down the N Sea, strong S-lies for all at first, weakening and turning into the SE by Tue 3rd before a shallow trough moves E from the Atlantic.

ECM - similar to GFS until Thu 28th when there is no HP over Norway, but instead a rather indeterminate area of LP approaches from the Atlantic, becoming 995mb N Scotland  Sat 30th with a general W-ly flow for Britain. In this model any intense continental HP stays well to the E, somewhere near Kazakhstan.

GEM - takes the ECM thinking a stage further with the 'indeterminate' LP deepening to 985mb Irish Sea Fri 29th, then drifting N-wards with much the same central pressure.

GEFS - cold to Sat 23rd, abruptly milder (esp in S) for a couple of days with heavy rain and back to norm on Tue 26th. Most runs then agree on a very mild period to Tue 3rd though a few colder runs peg back the mean; after this there is little useful agreement tough more mild than cold. The amount of rain after the 26th is less for a week but after that, as noted, no agreement - but, asever, persisting in the far NW.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Quantum
20 November 2024 08:59:55
ICON6z is notably further SE on that saturday low seemingly.

2024/2025 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 2 days with snow/sleet falling
18/11 (-6), 19/11 (-6)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)
2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.
18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)
2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
The Beast from the East
20 November 2024 09:25:06

Revert to standard type across the range of models this morning

Poor

Originally Posted by: The Dub Version 


Yes, ECM Day 10 mean looks like a classic Merkelslug. Once in place she wont shift.  Another mild winter is on the cards but LRFs did predict it.  Its possible the snow people get this week is all we get this season
https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2024112000/EDM1-240.GIF

 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
20 November 2024 09:30:07
The ICON6z shows just how sensitive this whole thing is to that cold core low, and even a slight SE shiftward can make a big difference.
https://modeles12.meteociel.fr/modeles/icon/archives/2024112006/icon-0-42.png 
Keep an eye on the upper level low to the S of Iceland (500hpa geopotential more important than MSLP). Note the lobe is further SE and the parent low to the east is stronger. Another correction like this and we could see that low take a much more southerly track.

This scenario of a cold core low to the north merging with a subtropical feature to the south happens alot in the US and its part of what causes the infamous NErlies. I will say this, these scenarios are handeled very very poorly by the models in the US. If that's also the case here then the ensembles might be underspread and we may still have a straw to grasp when it comes to the track of the storm on saturday.

2024/2025 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 2 days with snow/sleet falling
18/11 (-6), 19/11 (-6)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)
2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.
18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)
2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Quantum
20 November 2024 09:44:41
OK I can tell the GFS6Z may be a slight upgrade but isn't going to do what the ICON6Z did.
So is the ICON onto something?
2024/2025 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 2 days with snow/sleet falling
18/11 (-6), 19/11 (-6)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)
2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.
18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)
2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
The Beast from the East
20 November 2024 11:26:52
Is ICON the new NOGAPS?  Last hope for the cold rampers! 
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
20 November 2024 11:29:34

Is ICON the new NOGAPS?  Last hope for the cold rampers! 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


The AI based models are also more ICONy today. I've seen these sorts of systems be modelled completely incorrectly in the US, there is still a chance!
2024/2025 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 2 days with snow/sleet falling
18/11 (-6), 19/11 (-6)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)
2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.
18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)
2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Matty H
20 November 2024 13:31:35
Looks pretty nailed on to me. Saturday rushes in the mild
Rob K
20 November 2024 13:42:00
P13 of the GFS shows what could happen.

Generally though it looks rather likely that we are heading for the Euroslug. The 360 hour chart of the GFS op run could come from any of the worst 1990s winters.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
20 November 2024 13:52:39

Looks pretty nailed on to me. Saturday rushes in the mild

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Me too tbh, but I'd rather keep the dream alive.

2024/2025 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 2 days with snow/sleet falling
18/11 (-6), 19/11 (-6)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)
2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.
18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)
2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Hippydave
20 November 2024 16:14:46
Further to Darren's comment above, GFS 12z still running with quite an extended windy period IMBY, with 50-60mph from around 18:00 Saturday and throughout Sunday. Nothing exceptionally strong but much longer lasting than usual and I'd imagine it'll be enough to bring down a few trees and branches. 
The run looks interesting at T138 with a weak surface HP (I think) just south west of Greenland and a southerly tracking jet. Will probably find it's way back to more normal zonal later in the run, but could potentially do something a touch more interesting, even if it's another HP spell but with cooler temps this time round. 

Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
warrenb
20 November 2024 16:50:44
GEM 240 and GFS 240 are poles apart from each other
johncs2016
20 November 2024 18:33:07
That low on Saturday could be nasty.

Could that possibly be Storm Bert (that is the next storm name on our list after Ashley)?
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
Retron
20 November 2024 19:03:05

That low on Saturday could be nasty.

Could that possibly be Storm Bert (that is the next storm name on our list after Ashley)?

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 


Not much mention in the latest MetO 10-dayer (they really don't seem bothered with 24-36 hours of 50mph winds, oddly), but they did have these two charts - a good example of multi-model ensemble output. There's also mention of a Scandinavian High, but not in a position to bring cold winds to us.

https://x.com/metoffice/status/1859288094635114760 

https://i.postimg.cc/25xrcnmM/blend1.jpg 
UserPostedImage

https://i.postimg.cc/4dNZrnxd/blend2.jpg 
UserPostedImage
Leysdown, north Kent
johncs2016
20 November 2024 19:30:58

Not much mention in the latest MetO 10-dayer (they really don't seem bothered with 24-36 hours of 50mph winds, oddly), but they did have these two charts - a good example of multi-model ensemble output. There's also mention of a Scandinavian High, but not in a position to bring cold winds to us.

https://x.com/metoffice/status/1859288094635114760 

https://i.postimg.cc/25xrcnmM/blend1.jpg 
UserPostedImage

https://i.postimg.cc/4dNZrnxd/blend2.jpg 
UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Retron 


According to that and according to what I saw in yesterday's deep dive which the Met Office put out every Tuesday on their main YouTube channel, there's the chance that we could just end up going back to that same old boring pattern which we had at the beginning of the month.

This has already been our most boring spell of weather on record with any changes in weather only ever being determined by changes in cloud cover, sunshine and temperatures (there has been virtually no precipitation here since the very first day of this month) and that has already drained away my overall interest in the weather by quite a lot.

This means that if we do go back that pattern again with constant high pressure and yet more constant dryness, I don't think that I'll ever be interested in the weather again as that will probably just be the last straw for me in that regard.😡

The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
picturesareme
20 November 2024 19:38:38



This means that if we do go back that pattern again with constant high pressure and yet more constant dryness, I don't think that I'll ever be interested in the weather again as that will probably just be the last straw for me in that regard.😡

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 


Bizarre comment 🧐
David M Porter
20 November 2024 19:54:28

According to that and according to what I saw in yesterday's deep dive which the Met Office put out every Tuesday on their main YouTube channel, there's the chance that we could just end up going back to that same old boring pattern which we had at the beginning of the month.

This has already been our most boring spell of weather on record with any changes in weather only ever being determined by changes in cloud cover, sunshine and temperatures (there has been virtually no precipitation here since the very first day of this month) and that has already drained away my overall interest in the weather by quite a lot.

This means that if we do go back that pattern again with constant high pressure and yet more constant dryness, I don't think that I'll ever be interested in the weather again as that will probably just be the last straw for me in that regard.😡

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 


Boring it may be to some, but after the rubbish we suffered here in the spring and summer, I for one have been glad of the recent dry spell and the predominantly dry autumn.

Each to their own as always.
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
johncs2016
20 November 2024 20:07:50

Boring it may be to some, but after the rubbish we suffered here in the spring and summer, I for one have been glad of the recent dry spell and the predominantly dry autumn.

Each to their own as always.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


That's why I also wouldn't want it to be raining all the time here. All I want is some more variability in our weather so that it can at the very least, be regarded as changeable but that seems to be too much to ask for nowadays.

Our weather once used to determined by some days being nice and sunny and other days being wet and miserable, and all of that is part and parcel of what makes the weather more interesting in my books but that just doesn't seem to be the case any more, at least to the same extent.

EDIT:

Another thing to realise here is that when I'm discussing the weather on here, I always talk about it in terms of what I find to be interesting and that isn't necessarily the same as the actual weather which I want to be seeing in real life.

If I were to go by that instead though, I actually fully agree with you all the way. In my ideal world, it would be hot and sunny all the time in summer and cold and snowy all the time in winter but that would just be boring if it was like that all the time.
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

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