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Gooner
Friday, November 8, 2013 10:53:50 PM

A return to norm still be showing for later in the month


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Andy Woodcock
Friday, November 8, 2013 11:26:47 PM

The MetO very confident prediction of a warm November issued on its website just 8 days ago is going horribly wrong with temps during the first 8 days below average especially in the north where its been particularly chilly with night frosts and hill snow.


Now the MetO have dropped the warm November forecast all together with an updated MRF indicating a cool month, all this with such high Atlantic SST's


Confidence significantly decreases regarding which weather type is most likely to dominate through this forecast period. There are currently no strong signals indicating significantly above or below average temperatures or rainfall. However, the projections suggest that precipitation amounts are more likely to be just above the seasonal average than below. This would suggest that the weather remains changeable with spells of showers or longer spells of rain, particularly in the north and west, interspersed with drier and clearer periods, giving a greater threat of overnight frost and fog. Temperatures are also more likely to be just below average than above, and this would give a greater threat of wintry precipitation, particularly over hills.


Updated: 1201 on Fri  8 Nov 2013


Model output continues to show cool zonality which again is surprising given the high SST's, where is the cold air coming from?


Its back to the drawing board with any winter forecast IMO.


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Whether Idle
Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:41:03 AM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=324&mode=0


Eyebrow raised


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Scandy 1050 MB
Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:07:42 AM


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=324&mode=0


Eyebrow raised


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Both eyebrows this morning...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


Suddenly appeared on ECM but no real support from GFS but it does develop something cooler later on:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=252&mode=0


Could be one of those 'Saturday' runs from ECM and gone on the next run, but  both ECM and GFS do seem to indicate pressure rising to the west is possible in the next couple of weeks.


 


 


 

Whether Idle
Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:28:21 AM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=19&ech=336&mode=0&carte=0


JFF Perturbation 19, 336 hours 0z GEFS.  Enjoy for the next few hours.


and at 312 hours, same ptb 19:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=19&ech=312&mode=2&carte=0 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Quantum
Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:44:44 AM



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=324&mode=0


Eyebrow raised


Originally Posted by: Scandy 1050 MB 


Both eyebrows this morning...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


Suddenly appeared on ECM but no real support from GFS but it does develop something cooler later on:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=252&mode=0


Could be one of those 'Saturday' runs from ECM and gone on the next run, but  both ECM and GFS do seem to indicate pressure rising to the west is possible in the next couple of weeks.


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Todays ecm run shouldn't be too suprising with HP retrogression to greenland being well supported at ~240h recently. Since all the action is happening still at 216 we wouldn't expect to see anything too interesting on the GFS low res although the support for the overall pattern is definately there. Its far too early to suggest any sort of cold spell though, so much can go wrong at this stage, but the first pieces of the jigsaw are coming into place. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
GIBBY
Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:53:00 AM

Good morning folks. Here is my report on the midnight outputs of GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Saturday November 9th 2013.


All models continue to support a well documented pattern for the next week. In short a changeable Westerly or NW flow will affect the UK through the period around an intensifying High pressure area close to the SW next week. The High will never be quite close enough to prevent troughs and some spells of rain moving East or SE from time to time, notably tomorrow night and Monday and again on Wednesday. In between rather colder and brighter conditions will interrupt these milder interludes with some sunny spells but a cold wind from the NW.


GFS then shows the end of next week with Southern areas becoming settled for a time as the High moves over with mist and fog and rather chilly conditions developing while the North stays more changeable with rain at times. At the start of the second week winds swing Northerly briefly with a cold shot for all with some wintry showers in the North and East and night frost with the end of the run seeing a rinse and repeat of this scenario before a High pressure elongates across the north with Low pressure further South bringing some rain and sleet and a cold East breeze here while all areas become cold and frosty later.


UKMO shows High pressure close to the SW late next week with a cold north wind over England and Wales though away from the odd shower in the East t would likely be dry. With a ridge over Scotland here lies the greatest risk of frost overnight in lighter winds.


GEM maintains a changeable theme right out to Day 10 with some troughs crossing East at times especially over the North with rain now and again alternating with rather brighter and chillier interludes.


NAVGEM builds High pressure across England and Wales next week with Scotland staying mild and breezy with some rain. Fog and perhaps frost could well become an overnight and morning issue for Southern Britain under light winds.


ECM potentially shows the first wintry blast of the season next weekend as a Low moves South down the North Sea with an Atlantic High toppling over the top of it to the North of the UK setting up a spell of rain followed by North then NE winds with wintry showers or rain and sleet at times all the way down to Southern Britain into the start of the new week.


The GFS Ensembles are trending colder slowly with the mean gradually falling just the colder side of average rather than above. There are no huge amounts of rain shown anywhere but there is some highlighting the proximity of troughs of Low pressure at times.


The Jet Stream continues to show a migration North next week as a High builds to the SW before it's trend becomes more undecided and broken beyond that.


In Summary today there does appear the risk of something rather colder on the horizon breaking us out of the Atlantic train. There are various ways that this is shown ranging from High pressure building across the UK from the Atlantic bringing a spell of quiet settled weather with mist and fog or the ECM route of sinking Low pressure South over the North Sea with an Atlantic High ridging East over the top and bringing a spell of much colder north or NE winds and no doubt some snow to the higher ground and possibly not just in the North. The problem is it is still a little too far away to give much confidence of this happening as shown but I do believe there are rumblings in the atmosphere which could produce something more exciting for the wintry contingent among us before long.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
haghir22
Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:58:35 AM


YNWA
nickl
Saturday, November 9, 2013 8:18:24 AM
My list of words from Thursday proving useful already!

I wonder if the amplification can sustain itself?
Ally Pally Snowman
Saturday, November 9, 2013 9:23:08 AM

ECM a real peach this morning. Maybe some snow showers about especially for the North east. A Cold spell looking more likely this morning.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2162.html


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.html


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Andy Woodcock
Saturday, November 9, 2013 10:06:44 AM
The Meto do hint at a cold spell on their MRF with wintry precipitation particularly over high ground. Strong words really for early November! Actually this weekend could be classed as a cold spell given the Scottish ski resorts are opening today and snow is currently falling in the Lake District down to 800 feet. The Meto MRF on the 9th November 2010 was similar......thats my ramp for the day. Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Ally Pally Snowman
Saturday, November 9, 2013 10:14:13 AM

The Meto do hint at a cold spell on their MRF with wintry precipitation particularly over high ground. Strong words really for early November! Actually this weekend could be classed as a cold spell given the Scottish ski resorts are opening today and snow is currently falling in the Lake District down to 800 feet. The Meto MRF on the 9th November 2010 was similar......thats my ramp for the day. Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Some of us have already said that this year has some similarities with 2010. Even more so this morning.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Snowfan
Saturday, November 9, 2013 10:46:33 AM


The Meto do hint at a cold spell on their MRF with wintry precipitation particularly over high ground. Strong words really for early November! Actually this weekend could be classed as a cold spell given the Scottish ski resorts are opening today and snow is currently falling in the Lake District down to 800 feet. The Meto MRF on the 9th November 2010 was similar......thats my ramp for the day. Andy


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Some of us have already said that this year has some similarities with 2010. Even more so this morning.


 


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


Woohooooooooooo!!!!! 


 I must also confess to being 35 and being someone who has a tantrum if cold charts don't materialise, I don't post it on here but it makes me sooo angry!!! Lol! No need to worry about that yet as things are looking better every day!!! 


"Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow! "
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Phil G
Saturday, November 9, 2013 10:56:25 AM
There have been a few hints of a change in recent runs with winds backing into a more northerly quarter, and this appears to be gaining momentum this morning.
Brainstorm
Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:06:40 AM
Yes........ and what the models giveth, the models taketh away 😉
When a wise man doesn't understand he says, "I do not understand".
Only the fool remains silent when a question could bring them wisdom.
ARTzeman
Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:22:52 AM

Going with the flow and waiting for a gradual cool down after next week.






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
nickl
Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:23:58 AM

dear mr seasonal bounty, you may be right but at the moment, the models say otherwise. of course the ops are to be avoided post day 6 but there is a multitide of extneded ens output to trawl through. the period post the 20th still looking to be potentially sub 4c for london which is consistent extended ecm ens theme. 

The Beast from the East
Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:37:50 AM


dear mr seasonal bounty, you may be right but at the moment, the models say otherwise. of course the ops are to be avoided post day 6 but there is a multitide of extneded ens output to trawl through. the period post the 20th still looking to be potentially sub 4c for london which is consistent extended ecm ens theme. 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


defintely a cold spell is brewing. It doesnt look anything other than normal or what used to be a normal cold spell for November. Hard to see where the blocking can be sustained. But a brief toppler is better than nothing these days


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Sevendust
Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:40:31 AM


dear mr seasonal bounty, you may be right but at the moment, the models say otherwise. of course the ops are to be avoided post day 6 but there is a multitide of extneded ens output to trawl through. the period post the 20th still looking to be potentially sub 4c for london which is consistent extended ecm ens theme. 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


Watching it pxss down with temps at 5'C I would say its actually quite cold today

Chunky Pea
Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:52:06 AM


Some of us have already said that this year has some similarities with 2010. Even more so this morning.


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


I dunno. There seemed to be a just a little bit more 'umph' in the north Atlantic pattern at this stage in November 2010; although both fairly similar alright, if only because both patterns are pretty much what you would expect at this time of year. :)


http://omg.wthax.org/6rkN96.png


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Gandalf The White
Saturday, November 9, 2013 1:45:33 PM


dear mr seasonal bounty, you may be right but at the moment, the models say otherwise. of course the ops are to be avoided post day 6 but there is a multitide of extneded ens output to trawl through. the period post the 20th still looking to be potentially sub 4c for london which is consistent extended ecm ens theme. 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


Indeed Nick.


I have been watching the ECM ensemble runs for over a week now and the trend has been for a marked cooling.  The temperatures have fallen away from just below normal to cold now


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html 


There's a decent grouping of runs around the +3 to +4 max figure. Perhaps 30% of the members go for average to mild.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


squish
Saturday, November 9, 2013 5:38:08 PM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2013110912/gemnh-0-240.png

Similar to this mornings ECM. Too far out still but a possible trend for 8-10 days time...


 


GEFS control


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-240.png?12


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
doctormog
Polar Low
Saturday, November 9, 2013 6:20:58 PM

Yes but the big change is the trough wants to dig into europe and ecm likes it more than gfs with also heights rising at grenny nice and big change as we say goodbye to uncle barty gfs maybe playing catch up? lets hope so


http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2161.html


 


 


quote=doctormog;548322]


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2013110912/gemnh-0-240.png

Similar to this mornings ECM. Too far out still but a possible trend for 8-10 days time...


 


GEFS control


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-240.png?12


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Aberdeen_ens.png 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Originally Posted by: squish 

Polar Low
Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:00:58 PM

cool looking end with a half promise of a further repeat on ecm


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=0&map=1&type=0&archive=0

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