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doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:40:26 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013113006/gfsnh-0-186.png?6 
Again different to the 0z

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn19217.png 

All just variations on a theme although it is interesting to see the BBBC TV forecasts mentioning the cold air towards next weekend, so they must think it is a realistic possibility (in some shape or form at least)
Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:41:48 AM


6z GFS certainly better than the 0z GFS, more chance of longjevity of cold with that ridging into Greenland at 168.


Originally Posted by: jan1987blizzard 


Doesn't look that way .I thought the 0z was pretty good


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:43:27 AM

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2281.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn22817.png


Still chilly


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Saint Snow
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:52:45 AM

Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)


When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Sevendust
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:56:21 AM
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn19217.png  All just variations on a theme although it is interesting to see the BBBC TV forecasts mentioning the cold air towards next weekend, so they must think it is a realistic possibility (in some shape or form at least)


Tomasz Schufflebricker mentioned it getting colder later next week. Cold enough for something wintry in the north....although that's not really saying too much

Sevendust
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:59:20 AM


Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)


When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!


 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Maybe not for the Central Europeans

Phil G
Saturday, November 30, 2013 10:59:28 AM
GFS suggests a brief very cold northerly next weekend towards the end of the reliable before the Atlantic rolls in
nsrobins
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:01:04 AM


Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)


When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I thought the OP continues to be quite uninspiring actually.
The fact that BBC output is starting to tout colder stuff later next week is OK, but given the current state of play I can't see anything too substantial.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Retron
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:11:47 AM

The 0z ECM control run shows high pressure over France at 240 with westerlies over the UK. The high then drifts northwards, bringing light winds for the Midlands south out to 306 with SW'lies elsewhere. Some mild air is involved, with 850s across the UK around 6 to 11C. By the end of the run (360) there's high pressure over Shetland and NE'lies across England and Wales. Scotland lies under a ridge and NI is under light SE'lies. 850s remain on the mild side with the zero isothem over the North Sea.


Leysdown, north Kent
Gooner
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:15:19 AM



Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)


When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!


 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I thought the OP continues to be quite uninspiring actually.
The fact that BBC output is starting to tout colder stuff later next week is OK, but given the current state of play I can't see anything too substantial.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Me too ,nowhere near as good as the 0z


one run though


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:21:36 AM



Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)
When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I thought the OP continues to be quite uninspiring actually.
The fact that BBC output is starting to tout colder stuff later next week is OK, but given the current state of play I can't see anything too substantial.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Me too ,nowhere near as good as the 0z
one run though

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



I'd take sub 510dam thicknesses and -13°C t850s on any run 😝 (it is even colder in parts of the UK a couple of hundred miles north of here where thicknesses are down to 505dam at one point on the GFS op run)

Expect many wobbles and changes in the coming 5-6 days with the risk of everyone in the UK basically missing all the real cold still being (small) chance.
Saint Snow
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:21:51 AM



Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)


When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!


 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I thought the OP continues to be quite uninspiring actually.
The fact that BBC output is starting to tout colder stuff later next week is OK, but given the current state of play I can't see anything too substantial.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


You're right. I was looking on WO and hadn't noticed I was looking at what must have been cached output


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Joe Bloggs
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:27:23 AM
Just a quick one from me !

If the 00z ECM run verified, then I'd expect some significant, lying snow in the Manchester area / other parts of the NW next weekend.

A westerly element with sub -10 uppers is a catalyst for some really beefy snow showers in this part of the world.

I'm now officially interested. 😉

Still plenty of time for change though and also potential for the wind direction to go more northerly.

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Stormchaser
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:49:54 AM

ECM is being very consistent in digging the Scandi trough far south enough to bring snow streamers across large areas of the UK following on from a little back-end snow from the frontal system.


It then shows a shortwave running south in the flow, which would bring a classic snow event for some.




GFS is being less consistent, varying the extent to which the energy digs south. We must always be wary of such possibilities, even if it is the over-zonal GFS that we're talking about.


It's good to have UKMO supporting ECM regarding the trough digging south, but unfortunately the day 6 chart from UKMO has the Atlantic energy positively tilted so we'd be looking at the initial cold plunge being swiped aside, although there would be some potential for heights to our NW to drive a new bout of cold across the UK behind the low pressure system, which some GFS runs of late have showed.




Longer term, I'm seeing strong suggestions that we might see some energy dropping down to the eastern Mediterranean or thereabouts. With the PV energy towards Siberia driving a lot of cold air into the continent in the shorter term, we'd only need a bit of a ridge over the top of the east Med. trough to generate a reasonably cold easterly. The 00z GFS op run illustrated that fairly well, and the 00z ECM op is not without it's potential at day 10.




Overall, very interesting model output, with a real chance of some widespread snowfall within the 7 day range, although I'm not going to say lying snow for most at this early stage 


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bowser
Saturday, November 30, 2013 11:56:24 AM



Not a bad 6z FI. Plenty of potential, as the jet seems to be driven on a southerly track by a stubborn high to our east (although it's not strictly a Scandanavian high)
When I hear reports of winter flooding in central Europe, it's always a good sign, so fingers crossed!

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I thought the OP continues to be quite uninspiring actually.
The fact that BBC output is starting to tout colder stuff later next week is OK, but given the current state of play I can't see anything too substantial.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Me too ,nowhere near as good as the 0z
one run though

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



I'd take sub 510dam thicknesses and -13°C t850s on any run 😝 (it is even colder in parts of the UK a couple of hundred miles north of here where thicknesses are down to 505dam at one point on the GFS op run)

Expect many wobbles and changes in the coming 5-6 days with the risk of everyone in the UK basically missing all the real cold still being (small) chance.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



Agreed. No complaints from me even if it looks like brief window for snow. Should stay cold for a decent period though. I wonder if there is any potential for that greenly high to strengthen over the next few runs and therefore prolong the cold snap.
Ally Pally Snowman
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:16:53 PM
Looks like a short sharp cold spell. Fi looks poor for coldies


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
some faraway beach
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:39:50 PM


 ...


Longer term, I'm seeing strong suggestions that we might see some energy dropping down to the eastern Mediterranean or thereabouts. With the PV energy towards Siberia driving a lot of cold air into the continent in the shorter term, we'd only need a bit of a ridge over the top of the east Med. trough to generate a reasonably cold easterly. The 00z GFS op run illustrated that fairly well, and the 00z ECM op is not without it's potential at day 10.




Overall, very interesting model output, with a real chance of some widespread snowfall within the 7 day range, although I'm not going to say lying snow for most at this early stage 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Excellent. Looking forward to those "reports of flooding in Central Europe".


Not good news if you're a Central European, of course, but something to support high pressure to the north and deliver an easterly for the UK is surely much more important imo.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
The Beast from the East
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:45:50 PM

[quote=Ally Pally Snowman;554756]Looks like a short sharp cold spell. Fi looks poor for coldies http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png[/quote]


Yes, good agreement as well from the ECM ens of it being just a brief affair. So far December is looking average, which is what the pros are expecting


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:54:25 PM

Looks like a short sharp cold spell. Fi looks poor for coldies [url=http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png[/quote[/url]]
Yes, good agreement as well from the ECM ens of it being just a brief affair. So far December is looking average, which is what the pros are expecting

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



http://www.weathercast.co.uk/meteo/eps/ensemble-tt6-london.gif 
Polar Low
Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:04:30 PM

No its not poor look very closely trend continues on ecm as I said last night look east then n/e


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=1&type=0&archive=0


 


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

Polar Low
Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:07:19 PM

Thank you James



ECM is being very consistent in digging the Scandi trough far south enough to bring snow streamers across large areas of the UK following on from a little back-end snow from the frontal system.


It then shows a shortwave running south in the flow, which would bring a classic snow event for some.




GFS is being less consistent, varying the extent to which the energy digs south. We must always be wary of such possibilities, even if it is the over-zonal GFS that we're talking about.


It's good to have UKMO supporting ECM regarding the trough digging south, but unfortunately the day 6 chart from UKMO has the Atlantic energy positively tilted so we'd be looking at the initial cold plunge being swiped aside, although there would be some potential for heights to our NW to drive a new bout of cold across the UK behind the low pressure system, which some GFS runs of late have showed.




Longer term, I'm seeing strong suggestions that we might see some energy dropping down to the eastern Mediterranean or thereabouts. With the PV energy towards Siberia driving a lot of cold air into the continent in the shorter term, we'd only need a bit of a ridge over the top of the east Med. trough to generate a reasonably cold easterly. The 00z GFS op run illustrated that fairly well, and the 00z ECM op is not without it's potential at day 10.




Overall, very interesting model output, with a real chance of some widespread snowfall within the 7 day range, although I'm not going to say lying snow for most at this early stage 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Gandalf The White
Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:09:12 PM

Looks like a short sharp cold spell. Fi looks poor for coldies [url=http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png[/quote[/url]]
Yes, good agreement as well from the ECM ens of it being just a brief affair. So far December is looking average, which is what the pros are expecting

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



http://www.weathercast.co.uk/meteo/eps/ensemble-tt6-london.gif 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



I'm inclined to agree Michael. The graph just shows a lot of uncertainty but with the main core of the ensemble members holding onto the cold for a few days more beyond Day 10.

The plot for Wageningen, in the central Netherlands, doesn't hint at a mild spell - nor does the one for Stockholm. So a strong surge of westerlies seems unlikely at the moment. Of course that doesn't rule out a period of high pressure domination without cold uppers.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Polar Low
Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:23:47 PM

very cold ukmo now we can see with extension of its upper charts -12 well into the north at t144 and thats ukmo


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1007


 


ecm at that time


 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=0&map=0&archive=0

Andy Woodcock
Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:51:44 PM


very cold ukmo now we can see with extension of its upper charts -12 well into the north at t144 and thats ukmo


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1007


 


ecm at that time


 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=0&map=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Hmmm, interesting to see the cold uppers extend so far out into the Atlantic at a similar latitude.


This would indicate that the milder uppers coming round the top of the controlling high are being held back.


At the moment anything beyound +144 is pure FI so I would concentrate on the northerly rather than its demise.


I remember the Christmas 2000 northerly was at first forecast to be a brief affair and turned into a 8 day mini classic.


Lets wait and see...........


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Polar Low
Saturday, November 30, 2013 2:02:30 PM

Goodness me that gfs control run has some nasty winds on its southern flank that is some snow storm for the n/e Europe.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=0&ech=138&mode=0&carte=1


 

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