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Polar Low
Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:00:29 PM

gfs ice days for England >120 untill end of this run t190


NICE


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/temperatures-2m/120h.htm


 

Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:17:21 PM


gfs ice days for England >120 untill end of this run t190


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Here's where the table provided by Meteostar is handy - substitute EGLL for your local airport:


http://wxweb.meteostar.com/sample/sample_C.shtml?text=EGLL/ (Heathrow)


http://wxweb.meteostar.com/sample/sample_C.shtml?text=EGPD/ (Aberdeen)


etc.


Leysdown, north Kent
Gooner
Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:21:12 PM

Are we on the verge of a decent cold spell wihout realising it???


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:23:16 PM

Both like the ridge at 500 Q into scadi note ecm with energy at far bottom nice!!


http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html


 


 




http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/bom/runs/2013120100/bomnh-0-240.png?00


i did say a couple of days ago


 



Trying to look for something in the long term. It appears the bearing high is trying to reform mid december abeilt on the siberian side this time (so possible scandi blocks as we head towards xmas?). But the middle of december itself still looks pretty zonal, although probably HP dominated something thats akin to blasphemy in here. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


I would say that the only way to continue the cold spell beyond 5 days is to ridge into scandanavia. I haven't ruled it out either, but things really don't look too conductive to cold around mid december. We will almost certainly be south of the jet stream. But interestingly in far FI that stubborn bearing high does reappear, so its almost back to square 1. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Polar Low
Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:26:03 PM

Thanks Darren added to fav




gfs ice days for England >120 untill end of this run t190


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Here's where the table provided by Meteostar is handy - substitute EGLL for your local airport:


http://wxweb.meteostar.com/sample/sample_C.shtml?text=EGLL/ (Heathrow)


http://wxweb.meteostar.com/sample/sample_C.shtml?text=EGPD/ (Aberdeen)


etc.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

White Meadows
Sunday, December 1, 2013 1:43:03 PM
Lots of optimism in here today. Just how December should start! I have to say I'm really enjoying the company in this forum so far this season. Previous winters have not been such pleasant reading.
Sevendust
Sunday, December 1, 2013 2:01:35 PM

Lots of optimism in here today. Just how December should start! I have to say I'm really enjoying the company in this forum so far this season. Previous winters have not been such pleasant reading.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Soon change that


Seriously though, as Darren has hinted, for locations such as ours it all depends whether we can get that continental feed set up beyond the northerly a'la late January 1976.


We are early in the season but that doesn't matter too much wrt cold surface pooling over Europe, especially after all that cold air has been dumped there.


In these cases the uppers may not be too important albeit you would lack the deep upper cold needed to get heavy convection and that doesn't usually please Steve.M

White Meadows
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:00:41 PM
Pressure much higher over greeny on this run early on. What will it lead to further down the road?
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:05:29 PM

not very good compared to the 06z


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:11:04 PM

upstream pattern looks a bit more favourable even though the northerly is downgraded


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:19:29 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2013120112/UN120-21.GIF?01-17


Looks like tonight's runs do not like the northerly, but perhaps pressure can build over Scandi


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
moomin75
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:20:41 PM


Are we on the verge of a decent cold spell wihout realising it???


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Short answer. No.


Long answer. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:26:40 PM



Are we on the verge of a decent cold spell wihout realising it???


Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Short answer. No.


Long answer. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Correct answer: No way of knowing just yet.


MetO 144 is a cold chart, for example, over much of England.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1021


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&carte=1007&ech=144&archive=0


Leysdown, north Kent
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:29:27 PM
Could this be a second successive vindication for the GFS? Apart from the 6z it has been consistent in nudging the high into the UK early.

I feel my cautious analysis from this morning, ie NOT saying the northerly was nailed on, looking at all model output, and accepting that it was still to be decided, has been vindicated.
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:34:02 PM

Could this be a second successive vindication for the GFS? Apart from the 6z it has been consistent in nudging the high into the UK early. I feel my cautious analysis from this morning, ie NOT saying the northerly was nailed on, looking at all model output, and accepting that it was still to be decided, has been vindicated.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Heh, you mean the GFS' inconsistency has been vindicated? Well, yes, it's been inconsistent all right.


MetO still has cold air over us, whereas the 12z GFS op gets rid of it in double-quick time. There were a few similar options in both the 0z EPS and 6z GEFS, so it's not that much of a surprise.


EDIT:


GFS 850s at 144:


http://images.meteociel.fr/im/5496/gfs-1-144_jmo5.png


MetO 850s at 144:


http://images.meteociel.fr/im/3687/UW144-7_pdg6.GIF


Leysdown, north Kent
Quantum
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:38:23 PM

Could this be a second successive vindication for the GFS? Apart from the 6z it has been consistent in nudging the high into the UK early. I feel my cautious analysis from this morning, ie NOT saying the northerly was nailed on, looking at all model output, and accepting that it was still to be decided, has been vindicated.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


I would say the 12Z is more evidence that some energy is trying to get under the block, and that my idea that the spoiler low over canada is overexagerated seems to be evident. Indeed there is more disrpution to the PV on the 12z in canada and the baffin, and heights are higher (at least to begin with) over greenland. 


Long term is interesting still:


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131201/12/300/npsh500.png


Notice the bearing area!


 


My thoughts are this. The 5 day period from ~5-6th to ~11th will be cold and blocked. Then there will be a gradual return to more zonal conditions for the middle part of the month, perhaps until the 17th. After that there is evidence that a scandi block will start to nudge its way in. Of course scandi blocks are much more tenuous beasts than the greenies. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:40:12 PM
The 12z GFS toys with the idea of a high to the NE in the post-day 10 timeframe. It really is remarkable just how much of the output has been showing such an evolution at such a long timeframe!
Leysdown, north Kent
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:42:55 PM

Could this be a second successive vindication for the GFS? Apart from the 6z it has been consistent in nudging the high into the UK early. I feel my cautious analysis from this morning, ie NOT saying the northerly was nailed on, looking at all model output, and accepting that it was still to be decided, has been vindicated.

Originally Posted by: Retron 


Heh, you mean the GFS' inconsistency has been vindicated? Well, yes, it's been inconsistent all right.
MetO still has cold air over us, whereas the 12z GFS op gets rid of it in double-quick time. There were a few similar options in both the 0z EPS and 6z GEFS, so it's not that much of a surprise.
EDIT:
GFS 850s at 144:
http://images.meteociel.fr/im/5496/gfs-1-144_jmo5.png 
MetO 850s at 144:
http://images.meteociel.fr/im/3687/UW144-7_pdg6.GIF 

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



Model watching is much affected by filters of perception.

The ECM will be very very interesting this evening, I would expect it to correct the northerly a long way east from where it has had it placed over the past few days, we shall see soon enough.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Quantum
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:43:31 PM

Could this be a second successive vindication for the GFS? Apart from the 6z it has been consistent in nudging the high into the UK early. I feel my cautious analysis from this morning, ie NOT saying the northerly was nailed on, looking at all model output, and accepting that it was still to be decided, has been vindicated.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

Heh, you mean the GFS' inconsistency has been vindicated? Well, yes, it's been inconsistent all right. MetO still has cold air over us, whereas the 12z GFS op gets rid of it in double-quick time. There were a few similar options in both the 0z EPS and 6z GEFS, so it's not that much of a surprise. EDIT: GFS 850s at 144: http://images.meteociel.fr/im/5496/gfs-1-144_jmo5.png  MetO 850s at 144: http://images.meteociel.fr/im/3687/UW144-7_pdg6.GIF 

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Model watching is much affected by filters of perception. The ECM will be very very interesting this evening, I would expect it to correct the northerly a long way east from where it has had it placed over the past few days, we shall see soon enough.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


I expect a correction west. Let the battle commence! 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Polar Low
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:44:20 PM

looks quite a bit further east ukmo to me Darren put me right if im wrong.


 



Could this be a second successive vindication for the GFS? Apart from the 6z it has been consistent in nudging the high into the UK early. I feel my cautious analysis from this morning, ie NOT saying the northerly was nailed on, looking at all model output, and accepting that it was still to be decided, has been vindicated.

Originally Posted by: Retron 


Heh, you mean the GFS' inconsistency has been vindicated? Well, yes, it's been inconsistent all right.


MetO still has cold air over us, whereas the 12z GFS op gets rid of it in double-quick time. There were a few similar options in both the 0z EPS and 6z GEFS, so it's not that much of a surprise.


EDIT:


GFS 850s at 144:


http://images.meteociel.fr/im/5496/gfs-1-144_jmo5.png


MetO 850s at 144:


http://images.meteociel.fr/im/3687/UW144-7_pdg6.GIF


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

Gooner
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:46:54 PM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120112/gfsnh-0-348.png?12


The block to the East seems a regular theme


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:55:04 PM


looks quite a bit further east ukmo to me Darren put me right if im wrong.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


The MetO has been going for a cold blast for the past several few runs. It's still going for one, albeit with the core thrust of the cold further east on this run compared with the previous ones. It's still going to be cold on Saturday though if the MetO 12z veifies.


GFS, meanwhile, has been up and down like a wh... err, a yoyo. One run you get 511 thicknesses over Kent, the next it's 530 thicknesses. This isn't a recent thing either, the various runs of the GFS op were doing the same yesterday - the only consistency with GFS at the moment is its inconsistency.


Hence the use of ensembles. They've been consistent (both EPS and GEFS) over the past few days in that they show two distinct clusters for Friday and the weekend. One cluster (the majority in the 0z and 6z suites) is cold, the other is mild. The 12z operational GFS fits well with the mild cluster.


I'm sure that the 12z GEFS ensembles (slowly rolling out now) will continue to show two distinct clusters.


All this serves to show at the moment is how poorly the GFS (as opposed to GEFS) is handling the situation. MetO and ECM outputs have been far more consistent over the past couple of days, perhaps because we only get to see 12-hourly output for those (the 6z and 18z MetO runs seem to be no longer available on the public internet).


Leysdown, north Kent
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:59:02 PM


looks quite a bit further east ukmo to meDarren put me right if im wrong.

Originally Posted by: Retron 


The MetO has been going for a cold blast for the past several few runs. It's still going for one, albeit with the core thrust of the cold further east on this run compared with the previous ones. It's still going to be cold on Saturday though if the MetO 12z veifies.
GFS, meanwhile, has been up and down like a wh... err, a yoyo. One run you get 511 thicknesses over Kent, the next it's 530 thicknesses. This isn't a recent thing either, the various runs of the GFS op were doing the same yesterday - the only consistency with GFS at the moment is its inconsistency.
Hence the use of ensembles. They've been consistent (both EPS and GEFS) over the past few days in that they show two distinct clusters for Friday and the weekend. One cluster (the majority in the 0z and 6z suites) is cold, the other is mild. The 12z operational GFS fits well with the mild cluster.
I'm sure that the 12z GEFS ensembles (slowly rolling out now) will continue to show two distinct clusters.
All this serves to show at the moment is how poorly the GFS (as opposed to GEFS) is handling the situation. MetO and ECM outputs have been far more consistent over the past couple of days, perhaps because we only get to see 12-hourly output for those (the 6z and 18z MetO runs seem to be no longer available on the public internet).

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



I've seen quite a few GFS runs, and, for the most part, it has had the high nudging in on Friday into Saturday. I do think the GFS gets a bad press because it is too generous with 4 full runs a day. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that, plus more runs, more chance of inter run variation. The Met O has corrected east thus far.
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
ARTzeman
Sunday, December 1, 2013 5:02:20 PM

W-Country Max temps by Fri probably only 3-6c with significant wind chill for many. Snow possible for Exmoor Fri/Sat. ALL other areas likely Clear.. Mr Ian Fergusson....






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
Sunday, December 1, 2013 5:04:37 PM
We are not that excited about 12z GFS, it poses that by Friday- Only Scotland and NE to Eastern England will be in the North NW Arctic wind plunge and Cold wintry Weather, and it improves the Extent and spread of Arctic Northwest and Northerly for Thursday day from Midday right to during whoe of Thursday Night that has many in UK in the direct plunge and band of rain with Snow in North NW and Central to NE and down E Central UK-all way to South and SE England, we are likely to get lot of Winter Showers, with low ground in the South also may be cold for snow.

The high pressure by Friday builds from the West and SW UK, and the Low Pressure plus North then WNW winds reduced of snow or sleet rain showers for much of Northern And the Eastern and NE side.

West and South parts Friday see pressure rise and less risk of showers for then as well as temps. Recover a bit.

By Saturday Finecold and dry across all of UK, turning less cold but some moderate frost Friday and Saturday night likely, good thing is at least we will have crisp sunny weather by Friday and Saturday.

Newfoundland Deep Low and E Canada PV Low on Thursday through to Saturday gradually merge up and affect NW mid N Atlantic heading to South SW Central Greenland, and the Azores High builds over UK at same time - it moves back in to us from our West SW side of Eastern Central N Atlantic.

What was the area called just West of Europe- That is where the high move East NE for UK.

The NNW Low Pressure Storm looks strong but the GFS pushes it and the Azores High behind it, and NE Europe looks like getting our Thursday Arctic plunge- it looks very cold, but it heads East and NE via North Sea and the SW Norwegian/ Far NE Atlantic Sea.

That is what I see right now via GFS 12z.

Don't be too impressed about it, we had a upgrade at 06z, the UKMO 00z and ECMWF 00z Output Earlier today was better than this GFS12z, as we know it appears they enjoy teasing us in the mornings, and ECMWF was also as much in line with 06z GFS as was GFS, and we should just relax, as yesterday's early evening GFS looks and was a bit worse but has shown some degree of a colder period Thursday 5th December plus a.m. From p.m. Night of Thursday- it might bring a cold front with rain turning snowy and it may start earlier in Central and N plus the East NE UK than in London!.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
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