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Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:05:38 AM


Whisper it quietly, but ECM looks kinda interesting in the longer term. In other news, as you were really.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Really? In what way? Just looks like a southerly based high pressure setting up and dragging up mild cloudy gunk...unless that's what you mean?


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


FWIW, the ECM control (which is very similar to the op at 240) goes on to develop a Scandinavian High with not-very-cold NE'lies for much of the UK by 360. That's the third control run in a row to show that sort of thing post-240.


Leysdown, north Kent
Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 4:51:15 AM
Interesting - the 0z GFS also pumps up a high to the NE. There's a definite signal there for a high to the NE after our upcoming Atlantic high topples over us...
Leysdown, north Kent
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 6:45:04 AM

On Dec 8th, the core of the cold snap, the models say thus:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=144&mode=0&carte=0 - GEM has a high nudging into cold air


as does GFS http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=144&mode=0


the Met O is more of a northerly - mostly  for the east http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1021


ECMF is more robust  http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


and has -12 850s at south coast  http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=0&map=0&archive=0


 


This one wont be solved til this evening at the earliest, the EC model shows greatest wintry potential, GFS looks less cold and dry.


A median solution - which the UKMO presents above, is my choice


Meanwhile deep in FI...


BOM has this..http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/bome_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0 


GEM has the opposite  http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


and ECM has this interesting chart, kind of leaning to BOM but very settled at that point: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


As Darren has indicated, there is a chance of a not-too-cold Scandi High forming around 12 December...


 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
some faraway beach
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:56:09 AM

ECMF is more robust  http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


and has -12 850s at south coast  http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=0&map=0&archive=0


 


Yes, the 528 dam line appears to be somewhere south-west of the Scilly Isles on that chart. which is nice.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
GIBBY
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:58:30 AM

Good morning. Sorry no report last night but too busy with work. However, here is todays account of how the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM look for today Sunday December 1st 2013.


All models show a large annticyclone close to Ireland with a gentle Northerly flow over the UK. A lot of cloud is trapped under this HIgh pressure and will continue to dominate conditions over most areas for the first few days of the week with limited brightness and just a little overnight frost and fog if skies happen to clear somewhat overnight. By midweek most models show High pressure weakening slowly and allowing a weak cold front to slip South on Wednesday with a little rain travelling North to South over all areas. This is then followed by another one on Thursday, this time more marked with a switch to cold and strong NNW winds with wintry showers travelling South all the way down to Southern England by Friday. Frosts would return at night and snow showers would be falling thick and fast across some Northern and Eastern areas at times with even a few possible in the South for a time. Through next weekend all models illustrate High pressure moving in close to the South of the UK with the Northerly flow becoming cut off with a legacy of cold air over the South with clear skies giving rise to sharp night frosts and freezing fog patches while the North becomes less cold as winds settle from the West with more cloud spilling in too.


GFS, in Week 2 shows High pressure moving away SE into Europe and allowing all areas become under the influence of an increasingly mild and strong SSW flow with Low pressure spiralling around in the Atlantic sending troughs towards the North and West with rain at times, though amounts in the East and SE would be small or non existent at times. At the very end of the run ssomewhat colder air may reach Southern and Eastern areas as a SE continental drift to the wind reaches these areas.


UKMO today closes it's run next Saturday showing High pressure over Western Ireland with a decreasing but still very cold straight Arctic Northerly flow over the UK delivering snow showers to Northern and Eastern coastal areas in particular, all the way down to Essex and Kent. The West would become largely dry but cold with sunny spells and overnight frosts.


GEM sinks High pressure away South from late next weekend and into the second week with a strong and less cold Westerly flow developing for all with rain at times too, chiefly but not exclusively in the North and West with average vlue temperatures by midweek.


NAVGEM holds High pressure over the UK with a centre much further NW towards Greenland with a ridge SE across the UK. The end of it's run would be typified by very cold and frosty weather with snow showers dying away from NE areas apart from the far NE coast. Some sunny days would probably compensate for the very cold conditions.


ECM today shows High pressure holding firm across Southern England having arrived here next Sunday. The North would slowly become less cold following the cold snap and a lot of cloud would encompass these areas off the Atlantic with little in the way of frost and fog then. These benign conditions will gradually extend South to Southern Britain too by the middle of Week 2 replacing the frost and fog patches of early in the week.


The GFS Ensembles shows good support this morning for a short cold snap late this week and coming weekend to be followed by a NW/SE split in the weather with a long fetch SW'ly looking the most likely option. All areas would be at risk of some rain at times, only a little at times in the SE but with some wetter conditions to the North and West along with strong winds and temperatures everywhere recovering to above average.


The Jet Stream shows the flow tilting to a more SE direction later this week down across the UK from it's current location which is well North of the UK. It then resets in a NE directions across the Atlantic and across Scotland through Week 2 indicating Low pressure to the NW and High pressure to the SE of Britain.


In Summary the weather is set to turn colder briefly at the end of this week and next weekend with some snow possible for a time in the North and East and sharp overnight frosts in the cold North wind. In the meantime the weather will stay cloudy and benign with dry weather until a couple of weak fronts deliver the cold snap soon after midweek. Then through Week 2 it's all about where the High killing off the cold North feed ends up. The Americans seem to want to sink it SE over Europe quite quickly next week setting up a changeable and relatively mild and breezy SW feed with rain at times, mostly in the North and West while ECM shows High pressure holding across the South with a return to benign and increasingly cloudy and less cold conditions following a frosty start to the week. Which is right? It's a case of more runs needed I'm afraid.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:16:02 AM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?&ech=180&mode=0&carte=0


NAVGEM like a lost sheep, seems to nibble at its own tuft, it always seems to be a bit on its own, this time it is looking towards a more sustained cold spell.  Dismiss?


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
nsrobins
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:16:21 AM

GFS has been slapped into submission and dropped it's idea of splitting the short-lived ridge on Friday.
It's still +120 territory but their is now firm concensus on a short but potent Arctic push Fri/Sat before high pressure moves in again.

May have to start thinking about specifics and mesoscale as 515 heights and -11 850s will no doubt generate a fair bit of snow in the usual places.
Bone dry here pretty much a given but the frost on Sat night may be pretty severe.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
White Meadows
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:17:06 AM
Interesting to note how many low pressure systems form at southerly latitudes into FI. Especially over the med & Southern Europe. This is happening with various models.
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:29:25 AM


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?&ech=180&mode=0&carte=0


NAVGEM like a lost sheep, seems to nibble at its own tuft, it always seems to be a bit on its own, this time it is looking towards a more sustained cold spell.  Dismiss?


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Its Quantum's model of choice


Overall, the runs look ok today. At least the northerly seems to almost nailed. Who knows what happens after that


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:36:37 AM
Yes a short sharp northerly looks like the probable outcome based on this morning's runs. However at this range I would hesitate to say anything is "nailed on" . As it stands though Friday looks like being a bitterly cold day in places, with snow showers for the more exposed parts of the country.

The longevity of the snap has lessened a little over the last day or so but its potency remains, at 4 or 5 days out I would not rule out further changes. What follows still seems very uncertain too.
Sevendust
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:51:23 AM

Yes a short sharp northerly looks like the probable outcome based on this morning's runs. However at this range I would hesitate to say anything is "nailed on" . As it stands though Friday looks like being a bitterly cold day in places, with snow showers for the more exposed parts of the country. The longevity of the snap has lessened a little over the last day or so but its potency remains, at 4 or 5 days out I would not rule out further changes. What follows still seems very uncertain too.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Good summary Doc. General agreement on the Northerly from around Friday and into the weekend followed by High Pressure moving east. Given that by then we would be well into FI theres little point in going much further for any reliablity.


Fww, the GFS operational establishes a massive Eurobloc HP with long fetch southerlies but that is purely JFF and would not please many on here

Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:53:22 AM
0z ECM ensembles:

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2v0zrrr.jpg 

A cold weekend is pretty likely, although by the following Tuesday the high in Reading could be anywhere from zero to 13C.
Leysdown, north Kent
Gooner
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:28:01 AM

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/12/01/basis00/ukuk/rart/13120512_2_0100.gif


JFF Heavy snow across much of Scotland


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/12/01/basis00/ukuk/rart/13120518_2_0100.gif


JFF  Snow move further South into N England


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:30:27 AM

http://en.vedur.is/weather/forecasts/atlantic/#type=prec


This is a cool link from the Icelandic Met O and it adds the precipitation to the ECM charts.


 


Next weekend looks like Pembrokeshire Dangler territory.  N Scotland, N Wales, IoM, even Pemb and Devon/Cornwall could get some snow methinks, with the NWly component, these prone areas will get the lions share of wintriness; while the wishbone effect leaves many populated parts bone dry, if cold.  All subject to the ECM being correct of course, which is not overwhelmingly  likely, but a possibility.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:37:37 AM

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


Looks like a 2 or 3 day cold snap and then back to somewhere around today's values


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Retron
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:43:41 AM


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


Looks like a 2 or 3 day cold snap and then back to somewhere around today's values


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


EPS shows 4 days of cold (highs of 3C or less) conditions down here. GEFS has more scatter but the cold cluster (the majority, albeit barely) also show 4 days of cold.


Assuming the cold does in fact reach the south, which it ought to going on current models, it looks more like a 4-day cold spell IMO.


Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:53:36 AM

http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


ECM ens seem better than GFS.


Control run would be nice!


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:02:35 AM

Here she comes


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120106/gfs-0-96.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:06:00 AM

a slight upgrade, bit more amplified so may hold on longer


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Karl Guille
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:06:01 AM
Charts are as good as could have been hoped for this morning after some of yesterday's output with a 2 or 3 day northerly looking more certain with UKMO and ECM suggesting some pretty cold 850's. As usual the real interest and uncertainty is in the 'morning after the night before' with the models now playing with the possibility of some form of pressure rise over Northern Europe. Obviously my interest only perks up with an easterly and so while it is nothing more than an idea being played with by a couple of the model runs, it is intriguing nonetheless. Chances of anything really cold developing in the longer term for me remain slim but my whistle has been whet as they say!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:12:31 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120106/gfs-1-126.png?6


Brrrr (as they say)


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
nsrobins
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:12:41 AM

Talking about detail, I'm starting to wonder about the potency of the main CF.
There looks like being quite a gradient across the boundary, so an active feature with rain to snow and embedded deep convection may be a possibility.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:15:00 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120106/gfs-2-108.png?6



 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
nsrobins
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:15:59 AM


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120106/gfs-1-126.png?6


Brrrr (as they say)


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Indeed: -12 uppers now down into the SE on Friday.
Also the N Sea fature i bck in play. Shuffle the pattern a bit further west and that runner could deliver quite a lot of snow to the far East of Scotland in particular later on Friday.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:16:06 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120106/gfs-2-132.png?6


The old cheshire gap streamer


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
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