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llamedos
  • llamedos
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
Monday, December 2, 2013 7:56:58 AM

A chilly couple of days on the cards from midweek onwards then.


A nice new canvas for your discussions and interpretations........


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
The Beast from the East
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:08:59 AM

ECM awakens the Beast. Perhaps another phantom, mirage of a cold spell on the horizon, but interesting to see how this plays out


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
squish
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:16:28 AM
BOM is similar to ECM and all models have flirted with this idea for mid-month. However the overwhelming evidence at the moment is for the high to collapse SE rather than build NE, leading to a fairly mild unsettled SW regime after this weekends cold snap.....

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/bom/runs/2013120200/bomnh-0-240.png 
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Whether Idle
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:17:33 AM
In relation to comments made by Steve Murr in the last MO thread.

I will not be intimidated for voicing an opinion.

I do not accept criticism from one whose overweening egotism clouds his judgement on a regular basis.

Meanwhile I like the FI developments shown by the ECM.
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Arcus
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:21:44 AM
GEM never really bought into anything more than a glancing blow from the N/NW'ly later in the week, and certainly doesn't appear to be buying into any meaningful rises to the NE either in the the longer term.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem1202.gif 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem1922.gif 

Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Stormchaser
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:28:37 AM

ECM's just set the elephant loose... a beast of an elephant 


It all comes about largely thanks to the Scandi trough not lifting out north, with a ridge from Siberia building over the top instead, evolving into a major block thereafter.


GFS drives the energy up through Siberia, much like ECM did last night. It then has the PV displaced into the Atlantic and driving across air from remarkably far south - at one point there's air being scooped straight up from somewhere south of the Canary Islands!




UKMO... well, it's a funny one really. It has the Scandi trough looking likely to become trapped under the Siberian ridge, but on the other hand, its the fastest with the Atlantic energy going NE, so it would take a robust ridge to deflect the warm air advection northward and set up the chain reaction that creates the ECM evolution.




I'm wary as always. Many, many more runs needed!


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
GIBBY
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:51:23 AM

Good morning. Here is the latest Model Analysis report taken from www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk for today Monday December 2nd 3013.


All models show High pressure positioned over England with flat calm conditions for many under largely cloudy skies. This weather type with only minor local variations continues through until Wednesday. The North will see a band of patchy rain move South through tomorrow and Wednesday as a cold front slips South. This then reaches the South late in the day before another front crosses South over the UK on Thursday bringing a notable drop in temperature, occasional wintry showers of sleet or snow for a time in the far North and East while Southern and Western areas become clear and cold with frost at night but sunshine by day to start off next weekend.


GFS then takes High pressure away SE next week with cloudy and milder air being pumped up across all areas from the South and later the SW. Temperatures would exceed normal for all with time but it might take rather longer for this to happen in the SE early next week. Rain at times would develop for a while as fronts moved NE in the flow. Later in the run High pressure then migrates back NW over Europe to the UK bringing yet another spell of quiet and benign, rather cloudy conditions and with warm uppers we rely on an inversion to set up not to transfer very mild conditions down to the surface should it evolve as shown.


UKMO shows next Sunday as a milder and breezy day across the North as winds back WSW with a front carrying cloud and a little rain East through the day. In the South quieter conditions remain and with High pressure close to or over the area then dry and potentially bright weather continues with some overnight frost and fog possibilities look more likely.


GEM today shows High pressure receding South early next week into Southern Europe allowing milder SW winds to become established over all areas. With a bank of deep Low pressure stretching West to East to the NW of the UK rain at times would be inevitable, heaviest in the NW with strong winds reaching gale foce too at times. Temperatures would be close to average at worst and the SE may become rather mild at times.


NAVGEM too shows High pressure receding SE early next week with milder SW then Southerly air affecting the UK, probably rather cloudy and benign again with any frost and fog risk at first in the SE gradually becoming less evident with time.


ECM today holds a spark of interest as it bucks the trend from the other operationals in as much as it rises pressure over NE Europe next week which absorbs the High near to SE Britain into a ridge which would result in a much increased risk of the weather staying cold, certainly over the South with lower temperatures extending North through the week. With a continental feed of air across the South sunny skies by day seem more possible but with the usual caveats of widespread night frosts and freezing fog patches which could become very stubborn and slow to clear over England and Wales with time. It should remain dry though.


The GFS Ensembles are dreadful if it's cold your looking for with an almost blanket approach to milder conditions for all next week with High pressure to the SE. There are varying degrees to what influence that High pressure may have on conditions across the South and SE as some members show rain at times for all but if the High stays closer to the SE then things could stay rather dry with just occasional rain here with the majority of rainfall and strong winds likely in the North and West.


The Jet Stream shows the flow moving SE down the North Sea later this week moving East before the trend this morning is for a new arm to move NE across the Atlantic and over the UK in the second half of the run then moving on NE towards Scandinavia over the top of High pressure over Europe.


In Summary today it looks more likely than not that the end of the week's cold snap will be a blink and miss it affair with little significance away from the far North and NE where some snowfall in the form of showers may occur for a time. High pressure then builds back for a time next weekend before most output wants to shift it SE into mainland Europe bringing mild and changeable conditions across the UK with strong winds and rain at times, heaviest and most frequent towards the North and West. Then we have the 'ECM' model which throws a spanner in the works by building High pressure strongly over NE Europe next week which if evolved would totally change the complexion of conditions over the UK next week with frost and freezing fog patches along with brighter dry days much more likely next week with below average temperatures. However, it looks a little isolated and needs support from it's ensemble members and future runs to ascertain this as a trend to watch through the coming days.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
ARTzeman
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:52:40 AM

Like the freezing and cold changes ECM   "MAY"  bring....






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
ARTzeman
Monday, December 2, 2013 8:54:30 AM

Thank you Martin for the output..






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
stophe
Monday, December 2, 2013 9:40:35 AM
Looking at the ECM ensembles for Holland it could go either way from Sunday onwards. Control and the operational keeping it cold till Wednesday next week.
http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/Data/15DAAGSE_06260_NWT.png?6767676767 
Gooner
Monday, December 2, 2013 10:16:23 AM
Gooner
Monday, December 2, 2013 10:17:49 AM

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn8417.png


Average for most on Thursday


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn10817.png


Much colder on Friday


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
Monday, December 2, 2013 10:26:00 AM


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn8417.png


Average for most on Thursday


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn10817.png


Much colder on Friday


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Our local radio broadcast this morning had Friday as 'dry and feeling a bit chilly in the wind'.
Not unexpected but sums-up how our Arctic blast has desolved itself into no more than a chilly breeze LOL.
(I stress that is for S England. There will undoubtedly be snow somewhere in the UK and as Darren has said small upgrades are possible nearer the event).


I now turn my attention to the impending Easterly freeze-up next week . . .


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nsrobins
Monday, December 2, 2013 10:43:08 AM

The 06Z GFS OP is once again quite close to allowing us to import some of that very dry and cold continental air next week.
A few swings in general synoptics upstream and we could latch onto it.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
Monday, December 2, 2013 10:45:24 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120206/gfsnh-0-336.png?6


The block to the East is still be picked up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
Monday, December 2, 2013 10:51:31 AM


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120206/gfsnh-0-336.png?6


The block to the East is still be picked up


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Indeed. Over the years I've become a lot less emotive and excitable about the prospects of a proper easterly - whoch 9 times out of 10 is the only method of delivering decent snowfall here in the central south desert.
But you can't beat the thrill of the chase when these sort of synoptics start appearing at the ragged ends of operational runs. In reality we know it'll probably come to nothing, but it's a welcome distraction from the emotional aneasthesia of I'm a Celebrity


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Arbroath 1320
Monday, December 2, 2013 11:10:48 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120206/gfsnh-0-336.png?6


The block to the East is still be picked up

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



The 06z in deepest FI also shows signs of pressure building over Greenland as well as Scandi. That would be an interesting development. Good to look at but sadly too far out to be taken seriously. It will however mean a good few days of interest in the models to see if they build on the pattern or bin it.
GGTTH
briggsy6
Monday, December 2, 2013 11:26:39 AM



http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120206/gfsnh-0-336.png?6


The block to the East is still be picked up


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Indeed. Over the years I've become a lot less emotive and excitable about the prospects of a proper easterly - whoch 9 times out of 10 is the only method of delivering decent snowfall here in the central south desert.
But you can't beat the thrill of the chase when these sort of synoptics start appearing at the ragged ends of operational runs. In reality we know it'll probably come to nothing, but it's a welcome distraction from the emotional aneasthesia of I'm a Celebrity


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


"Emotional aneasthesia" - I love it!


Location: Uxbridge
Russwirral
Monday, December 2, 2013 11:50:04 AM


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120206/gfsnh-0-336.png?6


The block to the East is still be picked up


Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 



The 06z in deepest FI also shows signs of pressure building over Greenland as well as Scandi. That would be an interesting development. Good to look at but sadly too far out to be taken seriously. It will however mean a good few days of interest in the models to see if they build on the pattern or bin it.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I agree - constantly in the FI


 


The way I look at it - is it leaves us with three scenraios


1 - Scandi/Greenland high is just an agenda of the models for this time of the year, and will constantly appear / disapear when they feel like it... constantly in FI


2 - The Models understand the complete story - and understand how the ending will happen - but dont understand the middle with all the subplots.  Infact some of the subplots may end up being bigger than the end game


3 - The models have got it wrong and there are no sub plots.. and we end up with a rapidly developing HP over greenland/Scandi and cold scenario develops rapidly and alot sooner than predicted.


 


 


 


 


 


Gandalf The White
Monday, December 2, 2013 12:03:37 PM


Indeed. Over the years I've become a lot less emotive and excitable about the prospects of a proper easterly - whoch 9 times out of 10 is the only method of delivering decent snowfall here in the central south desert.
But you can't beat the thrill of the chase when these sort of synoptics start appearing at the ragged ends of operational runs. In reality we know it'll probably come to nothing, but it's a welcome distraction from the emotional aneasthesia of I'm a Celebrity


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Neil, I'm sure you can get the same effect from a Bartlett winter...... 


 



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


White Meadows
Monday, December 2, 2013 12:12:32 PM
Well, the 06z ensembles don't support an easterly. In fact the mean stays above average after 8th for the foreseeable.
Gandalf The White
Monday, December 2, 2013 12:13:26 PM

You have to give ECM credit for consistency...


London 00z ensemble graph:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html 


Out to Sunday the Op and the Mean are together, and that extends to Monday as far as the maximum is concerned.


There are two distinct groups of members from around Day 9 to Day 12, with one group bringing in average conditions with highs of around 8C and lows of 3-4C and another group that retains the cold theme with highs of 3C and overnight frosts.  Beyond Day 12 the colder options start to dominate, pulling the mean max below 5C.


The GFS 00z Op sits at the mild end, almost outlier territory, in comparison.


The weather over to our east in central Netherlands looks cold as well


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html?eps=wageningen 


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


White Meadows
Monday, December 2, 2013 12:17:25 PM


You have to give ECM credit for consistency...


London 00z ensemble graph:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html 


Out to Sunday the Op and the Mean are together, and that extends to Monday as far as the maximum is concerned.


There are two distinct groups of members from around Day 9 to Day 12, with one group bringing in average conditions with highs of around 8C and lows of 3-4C and another group that retains the cold theme with highs of 3C and overnight frosts.  Beyond Day 12 the colder options start to dominate, pulling the mean max below 5C.


The GFS 00z Op sits at the mild end, almost outlier territory, in comparison.


The weather over to our east in central Netherlands looks cold as well


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html?eps=wageningen 


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


Busted links Gandalf.


 


Anyway, I have a feeling ECM is barking up the wrong tree again. Remember last December's pretend easterly?.....

Tractor Boy
Monday, December 2, 2013 12:27:47 PM

Well, the 06z ensembles don't support an easterly. In fact the mean stays above average after 8th for the foreseeable.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Any easterly shown is still out in the 10-day timeframe and it would take a while for the 850 temps to drop over mainland Europe and feed into the UK (despite that it would still feel cold).


Interestingly the GFS 06z ENS for Helsinki show a huge spread for SLP which presumably includes some runs equating to a scandi high...


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT2_Helsinki_ens.png


There are a some straws to clutch if you look hard enough


Dave
Farndale, North York Moors
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