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Wednesday, December 4, 2013 4:55:54 PM
Polar Low
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 4:56:38 PM

Yup the first lot of energy early on moved it further east thus a slot appeared and it took its chance.


just here


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=114&mode=0&carte=1




With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


Originally Posted by: Retron 


GEM has some ideas which may help...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

warrenb
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 4:56:46 PM
GEM and CFS both going for the same thing.
Gavin P
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 4:59:52 PM



With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


Originally Posted by: Retron 


GEM has some ideas which may help...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I do rate the GEM quite highly and it's definetely worth keeping an eye on what it's doing... Never really went from Thu/Fri's northerly and IMO has come out of this northerly episode as the most consistent model...


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Quantum
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 5:03:52 PM



With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


Originally Posted by: Retron 


GEM has some ideas which may help...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Hmm, enough to stay interested. But will probably be dismissed as an anomoly by tommorow. NAVGEM is onto this aswell, or at least something similar.


The idea is to literally slice the PV in half by WAA on our side combined with a weaker attack on the pacific side. This allows low pressure to drain out of russia undneath the HP and isolate it where it is then able to retrogress to greenland. 


I find it hard to believe that something like this can just so quickly appear out of nowhere. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Polar Low
kmoorman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 5:04:42 PM

So, the day everyone seems to have given up hope, CFS and GEM both go for the Beast.  Funny old game this.


Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
Follow me on Twitter @kmoorman1968
David M Porter
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 5:07:22 PM




With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


GEM has some ideas which may help...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: Retron 


I do rate the GEM quite highly and it's definetely worth keeping an eye on what it's doing... Never really went from Thu/Fri's northerly and IMO has come out of this northerly episode as the most consistent model...


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Hi Gavin, how would you rate the GEM model when compared to the GFS?


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
JoeShmoe99
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 5:08:58 PM


With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


I dont think the model output is going to change much in the next week. Could be a very boring period of weather coming up until the next year. I think Id rather have wind and rain to be honest


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I agree, days on end of cool, grey. gunk is just about the worst weather type i can think of, its mind numbingly dull

doctormog
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 5:09:11 PM



With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


GEM has some ideas which may help...
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0 

Originally Posted by: Retron 


I do rate the GEM quite highly and it's definetely worth keeping an eye on what it's doing... Never really went from Thu/Fri's northerly and IMO has come out of this northerly episode as the most consistent model...

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn362.png  [frost]

The plunge is still happening, just not for some. 😄 t850s of -12°C in the first week of December is not to be sniffed at. Shame it is so short-lived.
Gavin P
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 5:34:50 PM





With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


GEM has some ideas which may help...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


I do rate the GEM quite highly and it's definetely worth keeping an eye on what it's doing... Never really went from Thu/Fri's northerly and IMO has come out of this northerly episode as the most consistent model...


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Hi Gavin, how would you rate the GEM model when compared to the GFS?


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I think it depends on the scenario. GFS always seems to be at it's best in westerlies. GEM can be more unseful in more unusual conditions, IMO.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Quantum
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:04:35 PM

One thing thats interesting wrg GEM/CFS; look at the 0Z ECM at 192h and 216h. The pacific WAA and the atlantic WAA are essentially out of phase, wheras the GEM has them in phase allowing the PV to split. I would guess that in order for the GEM scenario to come off, height rises will have to occur at the same time on both sides of the arctic. Otherwise we would get an isolated Euro and Siberian high rather than HP over scandanavia. On this basis, I would say the GFS solution is perhaps more likely at this stage. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:05:11 PM
What is the CFS model, anyway? Is it in any way related to the GFS?
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:06:18 PM

What is the CFS model, anyway? Is it in any way related to the GFS?

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Well its american and produced by NOAA. Its main purpose is long range weather forecasting from 1 month to 9 months out. It won't be that useful for medium range forecasting. In that sense inferior to GFS/ECM. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:19:59 PM

GFS is horrific no fun no snow no hope!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:22:11 PM


GFS is horrific no fun no snow no hope!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT2_London_ens.png 

Odds on anticyclonic nothingness? 😕
Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:23:03 PM



Great run and offers hope shame GEM has been so poor recently. Can it pull one out the fire here. The CFS is just nuts!



Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
nouska
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:25:13 PM




With the absence of an SSW event, I really cant see any way to get our sceuro high further north to let some undercutting take place


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


GEM has some ideas which may help...


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&archive=0


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Hmm, enough to stay interested. But will probably be dismissed as an anomoly by tommorow. NAVGEM is onto this aswell, or at least something similar.


The idea is to literally slice the PV in half by WAA on our side combined with a weaker attack on the pacific side. This allows low pressure to drain out of russia undneath the HP and isolate it where it is then able to retrogress to greenland. 


I find it hard to believe that something like this can just so quickly appear out of nowhere. 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I've been trawling through the archives of analogue years for CET inspiration - the thing I noticed was the rapid switch in conditions in some of these months. Problem is, some of the match dates are late in December so need to look at the January of the next year for pattern continuation and figure. I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that the same pattern in January will produce colder surface conditions than in December.


Bottom line - themes of the synoptics in the GEM and CFS charts, shown above, figure in a lot of the months I've been looking at - the signal is about 66% in favour of cold - a few for v cold.

Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:25:38 PM


GFS is horrific no fun no snow no hope!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT2_London_ens.png 

Odds on anticyclonic nothingness? 😕

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Yes ironically could be below average 2m temps but no hope of snow and real cold. Very dull in all senses of the word.



Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gooner
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:36:41 PM


Me and SWZ never really saw eye to eye.


Latest CFS run show's how we could end up with The Beast being Unleashed next week!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfse_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&carte=0&mode=0&run=0


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 



That would be funny


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:52:27 PM
Gooner
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:59:56 PM

Temps from GFS IMBY 12z


7c 5c 6c 8c 9c 9c 6c 6c 5c 5c 4c 7c 8c 5c 6c 3 c


Almost a chilly run of temps


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Zubzero
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:02:23 PM


 Uncle Barty dont show Q


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Indeed Classic Friday the 13th horror show ,if you like cold 

Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:03:19 PM
About as poor as you can get for us coldies

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Scandy 1050 MB
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:13:19 PM

Not a million miles away from that crazy CFS run GEM offers something of interest in FI:


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


 


I am not sure that the ECM and GFS evolution is nailed on yet...CFS and GEM just might be onto something, if not could be the most boring two weeks of weather since Jan - Mar 2011

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