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Chunky Pea
11 January 2014 12:08:30


 


Not liking the chilly, not much happening sludge most of the models are hinting at for next week. Would much prefer a stormy mild or bitter easterly cold flow.


While the ECM ens may show a colder than average outlook, the means of them are only marginally colder, and cold on that scale is really nothing to look forward too or celebate.


Give me one of the other, just not this inbetween void


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
nsrobins
11 January 2014 12:08:42

And (for entertainment value only) have a look at the 06Z GFS pert #2


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
11 January 2014 12:15:34
This certainly looks like a less frosty, though often wet and windy as well miderately above seasonal normal temperature winter Dec 2013- Jan 2013 upto at least Jan 19th 2014.

When we see this weather type, the Model Output Discussion should respect the changeable and wet at times weather, but if the rain is not very heavy that is good relief for those having flooding problems.

Ensemble Watching just more time crunching that I avoid and for me watching the same weather forecasts day in day out with minor differences run to run a la GFS and finding straws to clutch as far as looking for winter cold- well we shall treat our situation just like it treats us, that is looking more sensibly and just instead finding better stuff to do.

Winter is not in forecasts no cold snow right upto next 9 days.

But if by t144 next Friday to Monday we get some colder air into the mix maybe it is worth getting excited about but in that period the GFS UKMO and ECMWF show no cold but near average or slightly above normal temperatures particularly by night as no frost is expected after Tonight's frost in North and NE.

The Short days of January oh well, looking at thinking about days getting longer and wanting some less cold sunshine is my next best thing, though for the second wish is for cold and frosty nights and days with the lakes and ponds freezing and snow on the ground in January- but the Modles are saying it will be above normal temperatures and there will be more spells of rain and a scattering of heavy showers- I do not mind this weather as well.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Quantum
11 January 2014 12:20:27


And (for entertainment value only) have a look at the 06Z GFS pert #2


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Is that the best the GEFS has to offer? Its not exactly earth shattering..


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
11 January 2014 12:24:24
It's good to see that the latest Met Office outlook does not rule out (at least a brief) incursion of cooler air from east. As the charts show it is not the Atlantic steamrolling though (although it may well do in the end after a half hearted barely noticeable battle)
Saint Snow
11 January 2014 12:42:26

I don't know where the few grains of optimism are coming from. In the t+96 to t+120 timescale, both the ECM 0z and GFs 6z show Atlantic energy spilling NE'wards (whilst the UKMO 0z progression from t+72 to t+96 suggests this model would also forecast the same)


The result is that by t+144, the GIN Sea region is dominated by low pressure, with the block curtailed within Scandanavia.


It's a horror show if you want cold & snow and, *if* either the GFS or ECM solutions were to come off, we can write January off completely. Both show at that timescale deep low pressure to the NW of the UK and a strong Azores High.


GFS t+240: http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2014/01/11/basis06/euro/pslv/14012106_1106.gif


ECM t+240: http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/ecmwf/2014/01/11/basis00/euro/pslv/14012100_1100.gif


 


This country's climate is f****** s****


 


 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
jondg14
11 January 2014 15:16:42

A real late 90's classic this is turning out to be. Just waiting for the 'but '47 didn't start until 23rd Jan' comment LOL. Next.

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 

Actually, I think all the late 90's winters had hadfairly widespreadfrost/snow by this point.UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

Yes, most did Gavin. I have checked my records going back to 1991 and only 2006/07 had no day with lying snow in Penrith by the 10th January. This winter is turning out memorable for all the wrong reasons. Andy

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Just goes to show that the pattern this winter, so far, in allowing absolutely no cold snaps at all, is pretty unusual and extreme. You don't get many winters quite as bad as this from a cold/snow perspective, during a decade that's for sure.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Still loads of time for something cold of course but it has been an extreme winter so far in that sense. Warmest winter CET on record is 6.77C (1868-69) which is beatable if we carry on like this! This winter we have 6.3C for December and 7C to date for January.
Hungry Tiger
11 January 2014 15:39:48

A real late 90's classic this is turning out to be. Just waiting for the 'but '47 didn't start until 23rd Jan' comment LOL. Next.

Originally Posted by: jondg14 

Actually, I think all the late 90's winters had hadfairly widespreadfrost/snow by this point.UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 

Yes, most did Gavin. I have checked my records going back to 1991 and only 2006/07 had no day with lying snow in Penrith by the 10th January. This winter is turning out memorable for all the wrong reasons. Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

Just goes to show that the pattern this winter, so far, in allowing absolutely no cold snaps at all, is pretty unusual and extreme. You don't get many winters quite as bad as this from a cold/snow perspective, during a decade that's for sure.

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 

Still loads of time for something cold of course but it has been an extreme winter so far in that sense. Warmest winter CET on record is 6.77C (1868-69) which is beatable if we carry on like this! This winter we have 6.3C for December and 7C to date for January.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I was starting to think the same - if this winter delivers a February like 1998 or 2002 - then the mildest winter on record will be in the bag.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Hungry Tiger
11 January 2014 15:48:53

That Azores high sure has some strength in it.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


cowman
11 January 2014 15:54:20

That Azores high sure has some strength in it.
http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm 

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 



Let's hope it has come summer.
roger63
11 January 2014 15:54:50

It's good to see that the latest Met Office outlook does not rule out (at least a brief) incursion of cooler air from east. As the charts show it is not the Atlantic steamrolling though (although it may well do in the end after a half hearted barely noticeable battle)

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


UK Outlook for Thursday 16 Jan 2014 to Saturday 25 Jan 2014:


Unsettled through the second half of next week with showers or longer spells of rain affecting many regions. Some heavy rain at times, probably most likely over southern and western parts, and also a risk of hills snow in the north. Temperatures then near average for many, perhaps a little milder to the southwest and slightly below average to the northeast. Developments next weekend are, at this stage, uncertain, but the most likely scenario is thought for conditions to become a little more settled and perhaps also a little colder from the east or northeast. During the week after next conditions appear more likely than not to turn a little more unsettled, especially over northern and western parts. Some cold nights possible then, but daytime temperatures probably nearer average again.


Updated: 1156 on Sat 11 Jan 2014


 

SnowyHythe(Kent)
11 January 2014 16:07:24
Marginally better 12z
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:11:30

in line with this mornings euros. better but probably wont make any difference long term


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:13:58

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011112/gfsnh-1-138.png?12


 


US gets another taste of the polar vortex.  


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:18:02

still time for things to correct further west and south which may allow some frontal snow


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:20:27

with such a big change early on probably no point looking beyond 168 in these situations


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:23:11

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011112/gfsnh-1-168.png?12


Should be chilly enough for us under the polar maritime air


Brutal cold across the US!


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
polarwind
11 January 2014 16:24:41



Yes, after doing my morning scan of the charts, those two caught my eye as something of real interest.


Originally Posted by: polarwind 


http://www.ecmwf.int/samples/d/inspect/teasers/samplers/banner/mean_sea_level_pressure_and_temperature_at_850hpa!120!pop!od!enfo!enplot!2014011100!!/


ECM 120 postage stamps show cluster 1 offers northern blocking attempt.  So still a slim (15%) chance of some cold air advected in 6 days time.  85% chance of something much milder and wetter though.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

The 12 hr GFS showing some similar features to the ECM at the same time - still interesting.


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Dave,Derby
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:30:15

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn16817.png


 


Cold at the surface


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Stormchaser
11 January 2014 16:30:27

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20140111/12/138/h850t850eu.png


On the face of it, we have energy disrupting south and excellent WAA to support the block to the NE.


The angle of affairs is vastly improved on the 06z.


The way that the trough is then able to 'lever' the HP NE a little does seem a bit strange... until you look at the jet stream chart: 


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20140111/12/138/hgt300.png


While we do have the energy being sent south to the Med. - which is remarkable for a jet stream with winds of over 220mph - there is an upstream flat section which acts to drive energy more E and SE, and the jet is so powerful that even a robust block is unable to resist it's force. It's like using a bulldozer to shove a giant wedge under a house.


There is an element of luck in the fact that the models are showing disrupted energy that isn't able to take advantage of the strong jet to produce a monstrous storm tracking unusually far south - it would be nightmarish to have that coming up against a strong Scandi high; the pressure gradient would be immense.


As it is, the 12z run then sends that messed up energy south of the UK and spares us further drenching after a very wet midweek period (stalling front scenario). I'm not convinced about that weird bit of energy that sort of hangs out just N of the Uk though...


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:32:57

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1861.png


 


Not a bad starting point, if this is the resurrection of our cold spell. Interesting to see the ens later


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:35:00

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011112/gfsnh-0-228.png?12


Very nearly pulls it off


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
11 January 2014 16:40:37

crazy GEM


looks an implausible evolution


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014011112/gemnh-0-240.png?12


"the models are struggling"


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
11 January 2014 16:56:32

You really don't need much to get us back into cold. 4 downgrades turned us from a moderate cold spell to dredge. 4 Upgrades in the opposite direction could get us back; and only minor upgrades required. So if every model is an upgrade, we will be back onto a coldspell by 6z tommorow. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
11 January 2014 16:59:33



On a local note here, I have still yet to get an air frost this winter! In 2011/12 the first one was 14 Jan which was the latest in my records which go back to March 1996. That looks likely to be broken this year.

Originally Posted by: Jim_AFCB 



Surely you'll get a frost tonight unless you're right by the sea? Crystal clear out there at the moment.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
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