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The Beast from the East
20 January 2014 18:54:32

ECM cant link the Azores like JMA. But the polar profile is good.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
20 January 2014 18:56:46

In fact with such a good pattern over the arctic, I'd go as far to say the only thing required to send us into a cold spell of reasonably memorable proportions is moderate to strong WAA in canada and west greenland. 


 


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
The Beast from the East
20 January 2014 18:57:09

Jam tomorrow as ever!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014012012/ECH1-240.GIF?20-0


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Ally Pally Snowman
20 January 2014 18:58:29
Stunning end to the ECM on the verge of Dec 10 there.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.html 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Charmhills
20 January 2014 19:01:28

Rainfall could well be an issue has slow moving fronts come up against the block to the east.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
The Beast from the East
20 January 2014 19:02:08

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-5-1-180.png?12


Quite a few interesting GEFS members like this one!


There is an opportunity to get the link up at the 168-192 period. Though perhaps we may have to wait till days 10-15


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
20 January 2014 19:05:31
Hmm.

Just had a pretty clear look at the UKMO Wz, And ECMWF Wz, and the Bracknell fax charts.

The forecast is exactly like what GFS has in mind, much the same bar the 192 and 216h ECMWF 12z brings more mild to cold via NW SE Tracking Low from SW and SE Greenland, quickly arrive to cross UK, by not this one but next Wednesday.

And the Azores high moves to some extent west and SW from the usual location which is it sends a ridge from it to Bay Of Biscay.

Greenland, Norwegian Sea Svalbard Arctic, and the Norway Sweden and Finland Baltic high also showing well, the latter is shown to move to some extent more NNW from where it is staying this week- by Week after this Weekend.

Edit: Ver Cold Low Pressure there over the UK on the ECMWF run 12z at Thursday day 10.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Saint Snow
20 January 2014 19:15:37



I think the GFS should be renamed as FGS (For God's Sake).


Originally Posted by: idj20 


 


I've seen it called the FFS model many a time




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
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Saint Snow
20 January 2014 19:17:07


At 192h 60% of the ENS have a sinking LP with either easterlies or northerlies coming round the top.However that changes swiftly back to zonality with 75% zonal by 240h.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


 


Is 192h still the limit of the high-res output?



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Arcus
20 January 2014 19:28:56


JMA is an absolute stunner tonight wow!!! Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

">http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=192&mode=1

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


I think that requires some of these


 


 




Death, Taxes, and JMA at T+192. 


 


Joking aside, some interesting output, but as others have mentioned there's no consistency as yet. More runs etc...


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
roger63
20 January 2014 19:29:10



At 192h 60% of the ENS have a sinking LP with either easterlies or northerlies coming round the top.However that changes swiftly back to zonality with 75% zonal by 240h.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


Is 192h still the limit of the high-res output?


Originally Posted by: roger63 


 sorry not sure I know the answer to that

Gooner
20 January 2014 19:41:59




At 192h 60% of the ENS have a sinking LP with either easterlies or northerlies coming round the top.However that changes swiftly back to zonality with 75% zonal by 240h.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


 


Is 192h still the limit of the high-res output?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 sorry not sure I know the answer to that


Originally Posted by: roger63 


I thought it was


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Deep Powder
20 January 2014 19:51:36




At 192h 60% of the ENS have a sinking LP with either easterlies or northerlies coming round the top.However that changes swiftly back to zonality with 75% zonal by 240h.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Is 192h still the limit of the high-res output?

Originally Posted by: roger63 


sorry not sure I know the answer to that

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I thought it was UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: roger63 



Me too, sure when they upgraded a few years back, high res went up to 192hrs


Near Leatherhead 100masl (currently living in China since September 2019)
Loving the weather whatever it brings, snow, rain, wind, sun, heat, all great!
Essan
20 January 2014 20:12:53





At 192h 60% of the ENS have a sinking LP with either easterlies or northerlies coming round the top.However that changes swiftly back to zonality with 75% zonal by 240h.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Is 192h still the limit of the high-res output?


Originally Posted by: roger63 


 sorry not sure I know the answer to that


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I thought it was


Originally Posted by: roger63 



Yes, GFS is lower res after T+192 

FI often starts well before then these days ......


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

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Ally Pally Snowman
20 January 2014 20:36:50
The ECM Mean is definitely getting colder

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
marting
20 January 2014 20:39:10
ECM short ensembles show the 12z op run was at the top of the warmer runs, average was quite lower with some colder runs about.
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Steve Murr
20 January 2014 20:56:51

The best ECM of the year today, not specifically because of the MEAN, but because of the arctic high- slayer of all.


Just being a pedant to the Game set & match posts supporting the GFS - here is a snapshot of how far its actually out sometimes


 


heres todays 96 hour chart-


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012012/gfsnh-0-96.png?12


 


Heres the same chart 3 days ago @ 168 from the same model


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/archives/gfsnh-2014011712-0-168.png?12


that is shockingly bad.



Anyway- even the ECM OP looks progressive tonight past day 6- where as the mean has some very snowy charts at day 8-10


it is all about the arctic high & whether it makes it into greenland


 


S


 


 


 

Deep Powder
20 January 2014 21:06:43
Cheers Steve, always enjoy your comments. The difference between the GFS charts is incredible, just out of interest how different would the 2 equivalent ECM charts look? I don't know how to get the one from 3 days ago so can't check myself.......😁
Near Leatherhead 100masl (currently living in China since September 2019)
Loving the weather whatever it brings, snow, rain, wind, sun, heat, all great!
Steve Murr
20 January 2014 21:11:52

Cheers Steve, always enjoy your comments. The difference between the GFS charts is incredible, just out of interest how different would the 2 equivalent ECM charts look? I don't know how to get the one from 3 days ago so can't check myself.......😁

Originally Posted by: Deep Powder 


 


The ECM was pretty spot on


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/archives/2014011712/ECH1-168.GIF?12


 


 

nickl
20 January 2014 21:14:26


More of an Arctic High/Sliding Trough combination in today's output, but also signs of another troublesome burst of westerlies in 8-10 days time, which would need to be driven into the Continent to avoid annihalating the blocking to our NE.
I know the models often make a complete hash of Arctic Highs, sliding troughs and westerlies meeting blocks, so with all three in the mix, there is nothing in the model output that convinces me.
Nothing.

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: roger63 


You mention another troublesome burst of westerlies in8-10 days time.
Thats refected in 12h GEFS.
At 192h 60% of the ENS have a sinking LP with either easterlies or northerlies coming round the top.However that changes swiftly back to zonality with 75% zonal by 240h.

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 



The gefs look well out on the arctic high by the time they drop their resolution at day 8.

The ecm ens mean only 100 miles off the east coast post day 7 with the mean trough and all the uncertainty west of there. Given that we have blocking to our ne, do you think the mean charts will correct east or west?

Further to the ssw definition, i understand it to be when the zonal winds reverse at 60N at 10hpa. I saw the one earlier re 50c increases in 2 days. Where would the increase have to happen to count? I think this type of rise in temps is generally seen when we see the vortex split or dispaced but it isnt the definition.
Stormchaser
20 January 2014 21:18:14

Well I'm not suprised that, after GFS just bulldozes away the Arctic High with energy piling NE, ECM slides that energy SE instead.


It's about as typical as it gets for those two.


 


GFS did confuse me, as the setup at 192 hours looked more inclined to break away some energy from the PV and send it across to the UK, as opposed to having the whole PV romp into Greenland.


Hence my 'nothing convinces me' post.


ECM almost convinces me... I just can't afford to commit to it at this stage though, even in light of JMA's excellent offering. To me it does make sense based on past evolutions involving such a pronounced Arctic High, but the trouble is that the models really wavered on having such a feature in the first place, and GFS is taking unusually long to join in... or maybe not, it is the GFS after all 


 


Back in 2010, when we had a strong Arctic High up in the Polar regions, the models were often adjusting to more amplified solutions with better WAA to support blocking highs. The models have had modifications since then so who knows if the same tendencies still apply...?


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The Beast from the East
20 January 2014 21:20:55
Until we see the METO updates change, I will not get interested. Cold zonality still looks the order of the day.
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
GIBBY
20 January 2014 21:24:44

Good evening. Here is the report on the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday January 20th 2014.


All models show a similar sequence of events between now and the end of the weekend. Throughout this period several troughs will cross the UK from the NW bringing bands of rain which become slow moving in the East of the UK as they hit an European cold block. Behind the rain bands there will be a mix of clear or sunny intervals and showers which could be wintry on the hills. Some frost and/or fog can be expected between the rain bands as winds alternate between SW and NW while staying quite light.


GFS then shows a cold and windy first few days of next week with wintry showers on NW winds. By midweek a brief ridge of High pressure descends down over the UK with frost and fog patches overnight. The rest of the run then sees changeable conditions with occasional rain bearing troughs moving East over Britain with drier and brighter spells in between. Temperatures later in the run would probably return to near average in the North and rather above at times in the South.


The GFS Ensembles show a mean below the long term average tonight for much of the run and while not excessively low there is sufficiently low levels shown adequate enough to promote some higher ground snowfall at times with plenty of rain spread about over the run for all parts of the UK.


UKMO has another deep Low pressure area South of Iceland next Monday with a strengthening SW wind across the UK with rain sweeping East through the day.


GEM is very similar at Day 6 with a deep Low near Iceland firing strong Westerly winds and spells of rain followed by showers across the UK in temperatures close to average or a little below with little change in this overall setup even at Day 10.


NAVGEM has an intense depression moving slowly East then South across England early next week with gale or severe gale force winds with prolonged rain and showers, turning to snow on hills especially over the North. Temperatures will be slightly below average accentuated by the strength of the wind.


ECM has Low pressure areas slipping SE across the UK and North Sea from Iceland next week with areas of rain and strong winds and wintry showers in between. By Day 10 conditions across areas far away from the UK to the North and NE look like bringing a spell of wintry weather soon after the expiry of the run as synoptics look as though strong Northern blocking could be about to form.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts continue to show the pattern of High pressure strong to the SW and NE and Low to the NW and SE with the UK and North sea lying under a broad trough with largely unsettled and changeable conditions with rain at times and snow on hills most likely in 7-10 days with the UK still lying on the wrong side of the trough to promote UK wide cold.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream Forecast shows the trajectory of flow over the Atlantic and to the South of the UK looking like persisting over the next 10-14 days made more complex by a strengthening of the Jet stream speed next week.


In Summary the weather is looking very confrontational tonight. On one hand we have a cold block over the Continent remaining in situ. On the other hand we have an active Atlantic fuelled even more next week by a strengthening Jet Stream. The result is a UK battleground where troughs slow and stall in their delivery of rain and showers. Later deep and parent depressions too are shown to slide SE up against the block and by the look of it the ECM operational offers something quite mouth watering beyond the end of it's run tonight. Model watching at the moment is very fascinating as we watch these two power horses of West vs East UK battle it out for supremacy over the coming weeks.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Deep Powder
20 January 2014 21:25:11

Cheers Steve, always enjoy your comments. The difference between the GFS charts is incredible, just out of interest how different would the 2 equivalent ECM charts look? I don't know how to get the one from 3 days ago so can't check myself.......😁

Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 



The ECM was pretty spot on
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/archives/2014011712/ECH1-168.GIF?12 

Originally Posted by: Deep Powder 



Cheers, very interesting.........
Near Leatherhead 100masl (currently living in China since September 2019)
Loving the weather whatever it brings, snow, rain, wind, sun, heat, all great!
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