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Karl Guille
20 January 2014 21:39:25

The ECM Mean is definitely getting colder

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.html 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



ECM is overdue to offer a cold outlier on the Op so what odds it appears on tomorrow morning's 00z!?


St. Sampson
Guernsey
Twister
20 January 2014 22:18:55

Rain band turning wintry on its back edge on Thu night? 


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2014012018/75-574UK.GIF?20-18


 


Location: Egerton, Kent - 33m ASL
Thunder 2016: 12 (Apr 3,13; May 21; Jun 8,11,17,22,23,25, Jul 2,12, Aug 26)
Winter 2015/6: Snowfalls: 10 | Snowcover: 2 (Jan 17 (0.5cm)) | Air frosts: 39
Winter 2016/7: Snowfalls: 4 (Jan 12-3, Feb 10-11) | Snowcover: 2 (Jan 13, 2cm, Feb 11, 3-5mm) | Air frosts: 57 (2 in Oct, 10 in Nov, 13 in Dec, 19 in Jan, 6 in Feb, 3 in Mar, 4 in Apr)
"The heavens tell of the glory of God. The skies display his marvellous craftsmanship." (Psalm 19:1)
Steve Murr
20 January 2014 22:43:51

FWIW this is my 0-144 forecast based on all the bias & ensembles etc.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?ech=6&code=0&mode=0&carte=1&archive=0


 


S

David M Porter
20 January 2014 23:04:18

GFS 18z is awful, if it's cold one is after.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Karl Guille
20 January 2014 23:14:38

GFS 18z is awful, if it's cold one is after.UserPostedImageUserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 



Better hope the ensembles have something better on offer then!

St. Sampson
Guernsey
ITSY
20 January 2014 23:16:00

ECM ens look a definite improvement, with the op one of the mildest. Here's hoping that Arctic High can do the business. 

Chunky Pea
20 January 2014 23:28:03


Just being a pedant to the Game set & match posts supporting the GFS - here is a snapshot of how far its actually out sometimes


 


heres todays 96 hour chart-


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012012/gfsnh-0-96.png?12


 


Heres the same chart 3 days ago @ 168 from the same model


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/archives/gfsnh-2014011712-0-168.png?12


that is shockingly bad.


Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 


Being a bit selective there don't you think?


Other models can and do get it hugely wrong - even withing the 144hr time frame.


ECMWF 12z, 8th Jan this year at 144hrs:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/archives/2014010812/ECM1-144.GIF?12


 


compare then to the actual:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/archives/2014011412/ECM1-0.GIF?12


 


All model output is imperfect. So not sure what point you are trying to make with that GFS comparison.


 


 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
ITSY
20 January 2014 23:34:35

Some interesting options propping up on GEFS ens - albeit with most of them leading to only short (and rarely sharp) cold snaps. The stratospheric forecast is interesting though, with the PV being pushed completely out of Greenland on the 18Z, if that's any output related consolation for anyone! .

Gooner
20 January 2014 23:40:50

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-168.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-0-168.png?18


Control will a give a few something wintry


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
20 January 2014 23:42:56


Some interesting options propping up on GEFS ens - albeit with most of them leading to only short (and rarely sharp) cold snaps. The stratospheric forecast is interesting though, with the PV being pushed completely out of Greenland on the 18Z, if that's any output related consolation for anyone! .


Originally Posted by: ITSY 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012018/gfsnh-10-288.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012018/gfsnh-10-384.png?18


yep, start of Feb certainly sees some warming going on , as always though we have no idea what this will mean for the UK


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chiltern Blizzard
20 January 2014 23:47:17

The best ECM of the year today,not specifically because of the MEAN, but because of the arctic high- slayer of all.
Just being a pedant to the Game set & match posts supporting the GFS - here is a snapshot of how far its actually out sometimes

heres todays 96 hour chart-
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012012/gfsnh-0-96.png?12 

Heres the same chart 3 days ago @ 168 from the same model
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/archives/gfsnh-2014011712-0-168.png?12 
that is shockingly bad.

Anyway- even the ECM OP looks progressive tonight past day 6- where as the mean has some very snowy charts at day 8-10
it is all about the arctic high & whether it makes it into greenland

S


Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 



Good post, I knew the models were struggling, but the gfs comparison in the supposedly 'near reliable' range exemplifies the situation starkly.

Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Gooner
21 January 2014 00:30:43

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


massive outlier at the start of Feb


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012018/gfsnh-0-288.png?18


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


roger63
21 January 2014 00:32:19

GFS 18z is awful, if it's cold one is after.UserPostedImageUserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 

Better hope the ensembles have something better on offer then!

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


18fh GEFS more encouraging.at 84h and 96h 50% of ensembles have easterly prescence which holds back the arrival of wamer air by 24hours


By 192h the diving low introduces northerly/easterly flow on 75% of members.However most swept away by 240h and back to zonal. 

Karl Guille
21 January 2014 06:05:01
Still no raging easterly but probably the best set of GFS ensembles that I have seen to date this winter with mean 850hPA temps for London circa -5 between 27/1 and 2/2 with two or three runs dipping below -10 and snow 'potential' circa 40%.
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Richard K
21 January 2014 07:11:20
ECM looks quite tasty this morning from 168 onwards
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php 
Saffron Walden, NW Essex, approx 70m above sea level (when the tide is out)
Richard K
21 January 2014 07:13:30
GFS has the same descending low pressure in the same time period but with much less of an easterly flow behind it
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php 
Saffron Walden, NW Essex, approx 70m above sea level (when the tide is out)
Twister
21 January 2014 07:28:05


Rain band turning wintry on its back edge on Thu night? 


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2014012018/75-574UK.GIF?20-18


 


Originally Posted by: Twister 


The risk is suggested on the GFS 0z run too...


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2014012100/66-779UK.GIF?21-0


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2014012100/66-7UK.GIF?21-0


Location: Egerton, Kent - 33m ASL
Thunder 2016: 12 (Apr 3,13; May 21; Jun 8,11,17,22,23,25, Jul 2,12, Aug 26)
Winter 2015/6: Snowfalls: 10 | Snowcover: 2 (Jan 17 (0.5cm)) | Air frosts: 39
Winter 2016/7: Snowfalls: 4 (Jan 12-3, Feb 10-11) | Snowcover: 2 (Jan 13, 2cm, Feb 11, 3-5mm) | Air frosts: 57 (2 in Oct, 10 in Nov, 13 in Dec, 19 in Jan, 6 in Feb, 3 in Mar, 4 in Apr)
"The heavens tell of the glory of God. The skies display his marvellous craftsmanship." (Psalm 19:1)
Rob K
21 January 2014 07:42:40
The 00z GFS op run is unremarkable but the ensembles really are pretty good.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

ECM teasing with a lot of cold air to the east too

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif 

However it's all rather unconvincing. Lots of models showing cold scenarios but all of them different and no continuity from one run to the next.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
some faraway beach
21 January 2014 08:03:21

ECM looks quite tasty this morning from 168 onwards
Originally Posted by: Richard K 

">http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php


And a pleasing little blob of green over Svalbard as early as 144 hrs:
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


With a storm system modelled off the south-west of Greenland, I'm not concerned with what might be shown afterwards - all sorts of northern-blocking types of outcome are possible from there imo.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Snowedin3
21 January 2014 08:13:59

The 00z GFS op run is unremarkable but the ensembles really are pretty good.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

ECM teasing with a lot of cold air to the east too

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif 

However it's all rather unconvincing. Lots of models showing cold scenarios but all of them different and no continuity from one run to the next.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



Someone's not getting carried away with these runs ;p
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Gooner
soperman
21 January 2014 08:35:31

Last week, I said I would stay away from the charts for a couple of weeks but maybe a week would have been enough!  If you look at the cool down in Europe it is very gradual but also robust as the cold air out in Russia descends into Germany and travels through to the Netherlands, France and ultimately the UK.


GFS FI is all over the place.  Last night we had Spring arriving on 1st February across the UK.   


Certainly something to get the interest going for coldies but no cross model agreement and the possibility of an enhanced jet next week shifting the Scandi block eastwards.


One thing I find strange is that last winter we had almost a complete lack of a Greenie high and I think the winter before it was only fleeting.  This year, again, it has been weak when it has appeared. I thought the Greenie high was quite common in winter (whether or not it produced cold weather)? Wonder what has changed. 

GIBBY
21 January 2014 08:53:25

Good morning. Here is today's morning report on the NWP from their midnight release for today Tuesday January 21st 2014 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models continue to paint a changeable period over all areas for the next 5-6 days. The current area of slack winds over the UK will give way to freshening SW winds ahead of a trough which crosses the UK from west to East today and tonight. Rain and hill snow in the North will move steadily East over the UK today and tonight replacing the morning frost and fog in the East. Clearer showery air in a WNW breeze will follow to the West tonight and the East too tomorrow with Wednesday and Thursday staying showery with some heavy and thundery ones with snow on hills likely in the North. By Friday a weak ridge dampens down the showers before a further band of rain crosses East through the day. Over the weekend another spell of NW winds with scattered showers seems likely ahead of a major depression early by the start of next week.


GFS shows this Low pressure becoming a major role player in next weeks weather with a major feature slipping South down over the UK next week with spells of windy weather with rain and showers for all with some wintriness at times over the hills of the North in particular. Changeable weather will continue thereafter with rather drier weather across the South  for longer between the rain bands with temperatures remaining close to or a little below average in a mostly Westerly breeze.


The GFS Ensembles show a rather cold picture this morning mostly caused by a cold NW flow of winds from Low pressure areas sliding SE over the UK. There is unlikely to be any distinctly cold conditions but with precipitation continuing to feature through all parts of the output some of this could fall as snow at times over the hills and in the North.


UKMO today shows the weather next Monday with a deep Low pressure to the NW with strong Westerly winds carrying spells of rain then showers across the UK at the start of next week when it will feel somewhat cold.


GEM shows a very unsettled week with next week with Low pressure areas slipping SE down the East of the UK and the North Sea driving rather chilly West and NW winds with rain and showers falling as snow at times on hills and in the North.


NAVGEM also shows Low pressure slipping South over the UK with a wet and windy period with rain and showers and snow on hills through the middle of next week.


ECM is not dissimilar ending the run with a ridge of High pressure from the cold High to the NE over the UK giving rise to clearing rain and sleet away from the South after a very wet period earlier in the week and spreading dry and cold conditions SE across Britain with sharp frost and dense fog patches the likely features across Britain by Day 10.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Chart shows the stalemate pattern continuing in 10 days time with the pattern of High pressure to the NE coupled with a strong Azores anticyclone together with Low pressure to the NW and a broad trough down across the North Sea and on into Southern Europe. The net result weather wise meaning further rain and showers likely moving down from the NW and becoming slow moving just to the East of Britain with periods of showery weather likely in the West under a chilly NW flow at times.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream shows the flow maintaining it's basic pattern though with some strengthening of the flow for a time next week responsible for the deep depression many models predict slipping South over the UK next week. In the far reaches of the run the flow may weaken again but maintain a similar position so changes in any weather pattern look very slow from this morning's prediction.


In Summary the weather remains in an unsettled state as the stand off continues between a cold block over NE Europe and milder Atlantic winds bumping into it from the West. The net result still favours the milder air winning out as far as the UK is concerned though things do get perilously close for very cold weather to reach our shores at times. As it stands on the models today most predict the battleground likely to be over the North Sea keeping the UK on the milder side of a broad trough maintaining spells of rain followed by showery and chilly NW winds and showers with brief drier spells when fog and frost becomes possible. The one thing to note though despite what I have just said is that it would only take small shifts in specifics to increase the prospect for cold over the UK in a much more meaningful way..we will just have to see how the models continue the battle over the coming days.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Scandy 1050 MB
21 January 2014 08:56:47


Last week, I said I would stay away from the charts for a couple of weeks but maybe a week would have been enough!  If you look at the cool down in Europe it is very gradual but also robust as the cold air out in Russia descends into Germany and travels through to the Netherlands, France and ultimately the UK.


GFS FI is all over the place.  Last night we had Spring arriving on 1st February across the UK.   


Certainly something to get the interest going for coldies but no cross model agreement and the possibility of an enhanced jet next week shifting the Scandi block eastwards.


One thing I find strange is that last winter we had almost a complete lack of a Greenie high and I think the winter before it was only fleeting.  This year, again, it has been weak when it has appeared. I thought the Greenie high was quite common in winter (whether or not it produced cold weather)? Wonder what has changed. 


Originally Posted by: soperman 


'and the possibility of an enhanced jet next week shifting the Scandi block eastwards.'


Yes that it is the biggest threat, just as things look interesting the Jet could get a big kick due to all the cold air spilling out of the eastern seaboard.  If that strengthens again the last chance may be mid Feb for anything cold.


Plenty of interest at the moment but not if the Jet strengthens, ECM interesting at the later stages as others have commented - however I'd like to see some sort of agreement and consistency which we aren't seeing at the moment. Some wild swings from run to run currently.


 


 

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