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White Meadows
25 January 2014 23:39:03
Haven't posted in a while.

What a hopeless winter this continues to be for coldies.
If nothing shows up in the output next week I'm chucking the towel in. More floods & gales to come with a 'sort of chilly' easterly being the only thing on offer since... Well, last March!!
Quantum
25 January 2014 23:54:09

The worst thing is, conditions in the arctic have been so great for the last few weeks; and will contine to be great right into FI. It would just be our luck, that when the candian vortex finally does calm down; the arctic goes into screw you mode. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
25 January 2014 23:55:26




http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012506/gfsnh-10-384.png?6


biggest warming of the Winter


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


HOLY BARTLETT


that could be the biggest warming ever.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Very interesting! I wonder if winter is perhaps going to make a late appearance again, a bit like last year (although hopefully March won't be as cold!)


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


That 6Z run was remarkable, at the 3mb level it had temperatures of 31C! 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
tallyho_83
26 January 2014 00:19:30
I know that this is FI but my goodness me: - It's just very rare to see the whole of Europe where it's at or well above freezing ....I never knew these conditions could be possible in the middle of winter: - Look at the Alps for instance!???

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn38417.png 

Just remarkable!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3843.png 

Well - make the best of next weeks cooler unsettled spell then.

Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Chiltern Blizzard
26 January 2014 00:53:53

I know that this is FI but my goodness me: - It's just very rare to see the whole of Europe where it's at or well above freezing ....I never knew these conditions could be possible in the middle of winter: - Look at the Alps for instance!???

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn38417.png 

Just remarkable!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3843.png 

Well - make the best of next weeks cooler unsettled spell then.

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 



And all that whilst the Azores is almost under 528dam! However, that is t384, which might as well be a 10h Feb 2384 chart in the current circumstances when anything beyond t96 seems like FI.
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
festivalking
26 January 2014 02:36:26
Well Princetown is in Devon at 1200ft and due 6 hours of the white stuff Sunday night
Dousland, Dartmoor 206 m/asl
Its only going to snow when Gibby says so.
Gusty
26 January 2014 06:50:55

A broadly similar picture to yesterday...Still too early for actual specifics though.


The low sinks southwards into France with heavy rain turning to sleet and snow in places from the SE, courtesy of continental undercutting (but assuming precipitation is still in place of course !) on Wednesday before a couple of breezy and cold days with bright spells and wintry showers, especially on higher ground in northern and eastern areas. It will feel bitter compared to what has been experienced so far this winter.


Friday looks like a rain preceded by snow event..possibly some big falls in northern areas before an atlantic return to cold zonality...north very favoured for snow at times.


GEM is interesting in its output with another slider next weekend folllowed by a potentially very cold start to February. Conversely ECM brings in a much milder and drier spell of weather thanks to the extension northwards of the Azores High.


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



doctormog
26 January 2014 08:25:16
It was interesting to see the snow risk (shown in the Euro4 Met Office model) highlighted in the latest BBC forecast just now. "Don't be surprised if you wake up to a dusting" tomorrow morning.

Not here (it'll probably still be raining) - the comments were for parts of the south.

Overall chilly and unsettled, with details very uncertain.
Ally Pally Snowman
26 January 2014 08:30:10
Thursday looking like a snowy day 80 percent chance for London



http://f1.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-14819-0-79496000-1390721307.gif 

ECM looks like it also could be very snowy!
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm961.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Whether Idle
26 January 2014 08:33:28

It was interesting to see the snow risk (shown in the Euro4 Met Office model) highlighted in the latest BBC forecast just now. "Don't be surprised if you wake up to a dusting" tomorrow morning. Not here (it'll probably still be raining) - the comments were for parts of the south. Overall chilly and unsettled, with details very uncertain.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I've looked at the models and the only useful contribution I feel I can make this morning is to say that there is so much uncertainty as the the extent that the block will hold and the resultant degree of sliding/ disrupion/ entrainment of cold enough air for snow etc means that it is most certainly a case of wait and see if the 12zs bring greater clairty, though with this much confusion in the signals it will probably take til Monday evening before the white noise is sorted out. 


In Darren's immortal words:


More runs are needed.


WI


PS  E.G. UKMO 144 Block holds


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1021


ECM 144 - Atlantic barrelling through


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


GEM day 10 - beast ahoy


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


GFS day 10 - not cold


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Karl Guille
26 January 2014 08:41:03
Massive differences in the model output again this morning with ECM bringing back the Atlantic with a vengeance and GEM offering a whole bunch of straws to clutch! UKMO also appears to give the Scandi high a chance of holding its ground and NAVGEM does the same so I would say that details beyond T120/144 are still entirely up for grabs. In the meantime, there are several opportunities for snow, the first being tonight in the south with the cool westerlies, then on Wednesday / Thursday as we flirt with the easterly and beyond that, who knows?
St. Sampson
Guernsey
nsrobins
26 January 2014 08:44:50

 


It was interesting to see the snow risk (shown in the Euro4 Met Office model) highlighted in the latest BBC forecast just now. "Don't be surprised if you wake up to a dusting" tomorrow morning. Not here (it'll probably still be raining) - the comments were for parts of the south. Overall chilly and unsettled, with details very uncertain.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


But as someone has already pointed-out Michael, you'll see plenty of snow with more to come surely? (on the mountains of course)


The Euro4 seems to be performing well with the resolution picking-up the banding of shower trains, one such is modelled to be wintry in nature overnight across the south but I doubt anyone will see anything notable.
My opinion has not been influenced by overnight output - a brief cooler few days then it looks Atlantic all the way into February at the moment. A shame as a few icy days would be nice.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
doctormog
26 January 2014 08:54:48


It was interesting to see the snow risk (shown in the Euro4 Met Office model) highlighted in the latest BBC forecast just now. "Don't be surprised if you wake up to a dusting" tomorrow morning. Not here (it'll probably still be raining) - the comments were for parts of the south. Overall chilly and unsettled, with details very uncertain.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


But as someone has already pointed-out Michael, you'll see plenty of snow with more to come surely? (on the mountains of course) UserPostedImage
The Euro4 seems to be performing well with the resolution picking-up the banding of shower trains, one such is modelled to be wintry in nature overnight across the south but I doubt anyone will see anything notable.
My opinion has not been influenced by overnight output - a brief cooler few days then it looks Atlantic all the way into Februaryat the moment. A shame as a few icy days would be nice.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Here in Aberdeen I'd be surprised to see much more than cold rain until Wednesday then possibly (just possibly) wintry showers at times. As you say though the mountains are and will be getting loads. The problem for many, including here, is that it is simply just not cold enough. There will be a few places where "it all comes together" and while others get rain they will get snow. Factors like evaporative cooling could very well come into play.

Just a thought on your final comment. I am not 100% convinced that it will only be a few cooler days. It may well be but my confidence in any outcome beyond Friday is very low indeed.
GIBBY
26 January 2014 09:02:50

Good morning. Here is this morning's report on the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Sunday January 25th 2014 taken from my website at http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models show a deepening depression moving towards NW Scotland with fronts crossing quickly East across the UK with yet another spell of heavy rain and strong winds. This moves away quickly East followed by clearer and showery weather. Temperatures will fall too with showers turning wintry with snow in places, even on low ground in Southern areas with hail and thunder also possible. This showery theme will continue through tomorrow and Tuesday as the Low pressure area responsible moves only slowly South across Britain reaching Southern areas by Wednesday. As it moves to the South winds swing Easterly and enhance the chill with further wintry showers and as winds become lighter after midweek the greater incidence of night frosts look likely.


GFS then shows a new Low approaching from the West with a front moving slowly East over Britain with rain preceded by snow moving West to East over the UK towards next weekend clearing away East by Sunday with slightly milder air especially in the West. The second half of the run then shows a very inclement and wet period as further deep Low pressure areas continue to run into the UK from the Atlantic with rain and strong winds at times and temperatures returning close to normal offset by the wind.


The GFS Ensembles show good support for the somewhat colder period this week slowly giving way to more average temperature levels with rain at times through the amounts of rain stated by the operational run later is not as well supported.


UKMO closes it's run at the start of next weekend with a strong High pressure block to the East with a front moving into Western areas later on Saturday threatening rain and snow in what will be a cold and breezy day next Saturday with a strengthening SE wind.


GEM also shows this block holding firm and indeed intensifying over Scandinavia by the close of the run. Through next weekend fronts will push against the block giving a strong threat of significant snow in places before things dry up but become very cold in a strengthening Easterly flow by the end of the run.


NAVGEM too shows an active trough moving very slowly East across Western Britain with a band of significant snow edging slowly East while shearing SE into Europe later as the cold block to the NE holds firm.


ECM's operational run pushes the cold block further East with the net result being an easy win for Atlantic Low pressure next weekend bringing rain West to East over all areas, preceded by a short spell of snow in places and followed by less cold and changeable weather with rain at times, this becoming more pronounced towards the North and West as pressure rises to the South.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts show the chances of the Scandinavian High holding as relatively weak as the Low pressure to the NW shows a bias of allowing SW or South winds more likely to be across the UK with no doubt rain at times with a pressure rise over Southern Europe responsible for this with the most rain across Western areas.


The Jet Stream based on the GFS model Ensemble group show a preference to a strong flow across the Atlantic either crossing the UK on it's route to Southern Europe or being to the South of the UK at times.


In Summary the very interesting synoptics persist as Low pressure areas continue to run up against a cold block across NE Europe. We have GFS and ECM on the one side of the fence today pushing the block away with ease later this week and maintaining largely unsettled and sometimes wet weather across the UK in temperatures returning to more average levels after the cold week this week. On the other hand we have UKMO, GEM and NAVGEM show a much more bullish attitude to the block next weekend resulting in the very real chance of a significant snowfall somewhere across Britain dependent on the resting position of the push of Atlantic air from the West. What complicates matters today is that both the GFS and ECM ensembles support their operational runs to some degree of certainty which sets the other groups from which we have no such ensemble data to hand, more standalone in nature but despite this I feel that GFS and ECM push the block away too easily later this week and my thoughts lean more towards a UKMO, GEM or NAVGEM type solutions but of course I could be wrong..so more runs needed.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Ally Pally Snowman
26 January 2014 09:07:10


It was interesting to see the snow risk (shown in the Euro4 Met Office model) highlighted in the latest BBC forecast just now. "Don't be surprised if you wake up to a dusting" tomorrow morning. Not here (it'll probably still be raining) - the comments were for parts of the south. Overall chilly and unsettled, with details very uncertain.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


But as someone has already pointed-out Michael, you'll see plenty of snow with more to come surely? (on the mountains of course) UserPostedImage
The Euro4 seems to be performing well with the resolution picking-up the banding of shower trains, one such is modelled to be wintry in nature overnight across the south but I doubt anyone will see anything notable.
My opinion has not been influenced by overnight output - a brief cooler few days then it looks Atlantic all the way into Februaryat the moment. A shame as a few icy days would be nice.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Think it's going to be more than a cooler spell. Once again the ECM ensembles are colder than the op. the low also undercuts at day 6 so uppers don't need to be particularly cold for snow. After day 8 the Atlantic does look like winning though.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem962.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1202.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1442.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1682.html 



Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Lumi
26 January 2014 09:38:45

Martin


Excellent summary from what is seen in the models today (Level headed approach).


Its looking like anything is possible at the moment.


Hope the MetO output is nearer the mark.


Its been very interesting over the last few weeks model watching and reading peoples opimions / interpretations of the output.


Everything I have learned about the subject is a result of this forum, I am a novice although been visiting here for years.


The flip/flop output is very frustrating and patience is required when your wanting cold weather.


From a sleety S Yorks Pennines


StuH


Thurlstone
South Yorkshire
230m AMSL
Gooner
26 January 2014 09:41:50


A broadly similar picture to yesterday...Still too early for actual specifics though.


The low sinks southwards into France with heavy rain turning to sleet and snow in places from the SE, courtesy of continental undercutting (but assuming precipitation is still in place of course !) on Wednesday before a couple of breezy and cold days with bright spells and wintry showers, especially on higher ground in northern and eastern areas. It will feel bitter compared to what has been experienced so far this winter.


Friday looks like a rain preceded by snow event..possibly some big falls in northern areas before an atlantic return to cold zonality...north very favoured for snow at times.


GEM is interesting in its output with another slider next weekend folllowed by a potentially very cold start to February. Conversely ECM brings in a much milder and drier spell of weather thanks to the extension northwards of the Azores High.


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014012600/gemnh-0-240.png?00


Think many would be happy if GEM ended up being correct


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


David M Porter
26 January 2014 09:51:40



A broadly similar picture to yesterday...Still too early for actual specifics though.


The low sinks southwards into France with heavy rain turning to sleet and snow in places from the SE, courtesy of continental undercutting (but assuming precipitation is still in place of course !) on Wednesday before a couple of breezy and cold days with bright spells and wintry showers, especially on higher ground in northern and eastern areas. It will feel bitter compared to what has been experienced so far this winter.


Friday looks like a rain preceded by snow event..possibly some big falls in northern areas before an atlantic return to cold zonality...north very favoured for snow at times.


GEM is interesting in its output with another slider next weekend folllowed by a potentially very cold start to February. Conversely ECM brings in a much milder and drier spell of weather thanks to the extension northwards of the Azores High.


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014012600/gemnh-0-240.png?00


Think many would be happy if GEM ended up being correct


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


How is the SSW doing at the moment, Marcus?


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Arcus
26 January 2014 09:52:01
GEM was the only model last week to be fairly consistent in its modelling of a sinking low with some form of easterly to follow (before the UKMO 144 came into range). Not that it's actually happened yet, ofc 😉
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
26 January 2014 09:53:23


A broadly similar picture to yesterday...Still too early for actual specifics though.
The low sinks southwards into France with heavy rain turning to sleet and snow in places from the SE, courtesy of continental undercutting (but assuming precipitation is still in place of course !) on Wednesday before a couple of breezy and cold days with bright spells and wintry showers, especially on higher ground in northern and eastern areas. It will feel bitter compared to what has been experienced so far this winter.
Friday looks like a rain preceded by snow event..possibly some big falls in northern areas before an atlantic return to cold zonality...north very favoured for snow at times.
GEM is interesting in its output with another slider next weekend folllowed by a potentially very cold start to February. Conversely ECM brings in a much milder and drier spell of weather thanks to the extension northwards of the Azores High.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014012600/gemnh-0-240.png?00 
Think many would be happy if GEM ended up being correct

Originally Posted by: Gusty 





Well it's what we want to see but I give it a 2 percent chance. The odds are on an Atlantic return after day 8.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
NickR
  • NickR
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
26 January 2014 10:01:47


Martin


Excellent summary from what is seen in the models today (Level headed approach).


Its looking like anything is possible at the moment.


Hope the MetO output is nearer the mark.


Its been very interesting over the last few weeks model watching and reading peoples opimions / interpretations of the output.


Everything I have learned about the subject is a result of this forum, I am a novice although been visiting here for years.


The flip/flop output is very frustrating and patience is required when your wanting cold weather.


From a sleety S Yorks Pennines


StuH


Originally Posted by: Lumi 


Welcome to TWO, Stu! 


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Stormchaser
26 January 2014 10:14:10

UKMO, GEM and NAVGEM are putting forward trough disruption and energy sliding SE for days 5-6, while ECM and GFS don't have that disruption and end up levering the whole pattern NE.


 


It gets interesting when you consider how the trough affecting the UK over the next few days was originally modelled - although I think ECM had a slider by the time it was in 6 days range...? Not sure about that to be honest.


I think that the ECM 00z op run only needed some mid-Atalntic amplification - like what GEM models this morning - to evolve into something much more interesting beyond day 7.


 


I have rather given up on expecting anything in particular beyond a few days range - tonight's possible transient snow followed by some active showers tomorrow forms the large part of my weather focus at the moment.


 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Gooner
26 January 2014 10:27:07

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014012600/gfsnh-10-348.png?0


0z shows a warming, not as schorchio as yesterdays but stll splits that blue thing


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


tallyho_83
26 January 2014 10:51:07




A broadly similar picture to yesterday...Still too early for actual specifics though.


The low sinks southwards into France with heavy rain turning to sleet and snow in places from the SE, courtesy of continental undercutting (but assuming precipitation is still in place of course !) on Wednesday before a couple of breezy and cold days with bright spells and wintry showers, especially on higher ground in northern and eastern areas. It will feel bitter compared to what has been experienced so far this winter.


Friday looks like a rain preceded by snow event..possibly some big falls in northern areas before an atlantic return to cold zonality...north very favoured for snow at times.


GEM is interesting in its output with another slider next weekend folllowed by a potentially very cold start to February. Conversely ECM brings in a much milder and drier spell of weather thanks to the extension northwards of the Azores High.


 


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014012600/gemnh-0-240.png?00


Think many would be happy if GEM ended up being correct


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


How is the SSW doing at the moment, Marcus?


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yet with comparison the OP run for 5th Feb:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2523.png


 


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


squish
26 January 2014 11:00:22
NAVGEM 06z +144

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2014012606/navgemnh-0-144.png?26-11 

Very mixed picture this morning.
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
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