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Polar Low
06 November 2014 18:57:26

intresting from ecm and maybe key later on from ecm how that digs that energy further into Europe


http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html

Brian Gaze
06 November 2014 19:26:31

Well worth checking the individual GEFS members tonight:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


A significant number of them are showing extensive northern blocking.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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sizzle
06 November 2014 19:36:37


Well worth checking the individual GEFS members tonight:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


A significant number of them are showing extensive northern blocking.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

your final winter forecast should be intresting

sizzle
06 November 2014 19:39:22

much better to see the charts then links which were a pain in the ass tbh.  winter looks to be intresting with potential. maybe...

Polar Low
06 November 2014 19:58:25

Just a quick question is that PRX in red (bottom right ) is that the new Gfs parallel run stats??


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/new_acz6.html


 


 

Polar Low
06 November 2014 20:04:44
Polar Low
06 November 2014 20:11:21

If we get any polar bears we will be doomed if we dont we have a chance.


 




Well worth checking the individual GEFS members tonight:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


A significant number of them are showing extensive northern blocking.


Originally Posted by: sizzle 

your final winter forecast should be intresting


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Solar Cycles
06 November 2014 20:14:50



Well worth checking the individual GEFS members tonight:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


A significant number of them are showing extensive northern blocking.


Originally Posted by: sizzle 

your final winter forecast should be intresting


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

That will be done after the 12z GFS on the 31st November.

Russwirral
06 November 2014 20:43:32


Still a concerning amount of rain for many parts


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/accumulation-precipitations/126h.htm


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


 


It looks wet, but nothing too unusual for the areas to get most of it.  Central england looks not bad actually.  Typical autumn weather by my books.


sizzle
06 November 2014 20:52:22




Well worth checking the individual GEFS members tonight:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


A significant number of them are showing extensive northern blocking.


Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

your final winter forecast should be intresting


Originally Posted by: sizzle 

That will be done after the 12z GFS on the 31st November.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

more like 31st march 2015,

sizzle
06 November 2014 20:53:56



Still a concerning amount of rain for many parts


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/accumulation-precipitations/126h.htm


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


It looks wet, but nothing too unusual for the areas to get most of it.  Central england looks not bad actually.  Typical autumn weather by my books.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

indeed, few weeks away from winter yet all to play for... 

Stormchaser
06 November 2014 23:00:22

The wavelength of a Rossby Wave, which is a combination of a large-scale trough and ridge in sequence, can vary substantially between seasons, months and even weeks. This is the clearest explanation I can think of as to how cold conditions in the U.S. can coincide with anything from a blowtorch to a deep freeze in the UK.


 


Anyway, the ECM 12z op run has performed the same shift as the other models regarding what happens over Canada, and like GFS, GFSP and GEM, it has the most notable LP situated just off the SW tip of Greenland on day 6.


In fact the agreement for that is now a bit uncanny, with JMA not far away at all and UKMO the only major exception.


UKMO's difference appears to arise from a flatter flow on day 4. One model against the rest... given the lack of trough disruption in the UKMO solution, I'm hoping the major majority wins out on this occasion.


 


Now how about the 18z GFS and GFSP runs...


 


Well what do you know... the 18z GFS op has upped the blocking a good deal further than the 12z GFS op, while the 18z GFSP op has maintained a similar extent of blocking but shifted it west a little.



The GFS 18z op goes on to show blocking on a vast scale and a highly unconvincing dartboard low. I would much rather have trough disruption leading to this:




 This new GFS seems to be quite the entertainer! 


Steve Murr must be dancing on the clouds.


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Stormchaser
06 November 2014 23:21:17

Okay, the GFSP 18z op diverges from the ECM 12z op in a critical way at just 96 hours range, as it runs a shortwave LP up the Norwegian coastline to Svalbard more slowly, with the feature making less progress poleward.


This in turn allows stronger blocking to establish to the north of the UK, while surpressing the blocking across eastern Asia and Scandinavia, this then favouring the development of an E to NE flow through Scandinavia days 7-10 rather than a SE flow, which makes a massive difference in terms of how the cold progresses... it's a lot faster.


 


So here we are, the first important stand-off between our old friend the ECM and the shiny new upgraded GFS model. The outcome of this will greatly affect how I view GFSP output in the near future.


 


Today has turned out to be one of rapid model shifts towards a greater, or in the case of GFS, far greater amount of blocking in the Arctic from around day 7 or 8 onward. It takes me back to the days of late November/early December 2009, and is perhaps a typical signature of periods featuring a disorganised polar vortex and highly anomalous warming in the stratosphere. 


This brings a massive caveat of course - with little consistency run-to-run across the models, little faith can be placed in what they're showing tonight, and this will remain the case until they start to settle down, presuming they manage to prior to whatever we end up with.


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Zubzero
06 November 2014 23:34:33

The new and improved GFS pub run 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2014110618/gfsnh-0-324.png?18

ITSY
06 November 2014 23:53:46

probably unlikely to happen simply on the balance of probability, but that GFSP run is probably the best I have seen since 2010 - without meaning to hyperbole, it is simply an observation (which is why it is unlikely to happen)! the alignment is perfect and has some degree of support in the Op too. The ens should be interesting, although  the control sends the cold to Eastern Europe rather than to us. Still, trends are starting to emerge for something cold somewhere, the latter still unknown even to the most seasoned pros on here. Start crossing fingers for these synoptics to remain in the morning! Let the silly season commence!

Medlock Vale Weather
07 November 2014 00:33:29

Control run gives -20 uppers to Moscow. 



Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
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Steve Murr
07 November 2014 00:46:28

remember the Ensemble train-


 


Moscow > warsaw > Berlin > Debilt > London......



S

nsrobins
07 November 2014 06:00:54


remember the Ensemble train-


 


Moscow > warsaw > Berlin > Debilt > London......



S


Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 


I'm in Germany Steve and the trains are on strike


It has to be said that the output just now is just a pond ripple away from suggesting a substantial GIS block, more likely a Scandy block of some sort. Positive height anomalies to our North have been a recurring theme which makes a cold shot/spell mid to late Nov more likely than not IMO.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Charmhills
07 November 2014 06:29:00

Very unsettled looking runs so far from the Met and the GFS with bands of heavy rain and showers with temps never far from average at times.


A lot of northern blocking on the GFS 00z!


Its a shame its not colder enough for anything interesting as of yet.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Brian Gaze
07 November 2014 07:10:11

The overnight GEFS showing less blocking over Greenland than yesterday 12z suite. Worth keeping an eye out for warm spikes on the 850s.


 


Greeland 850hPa temperatures


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoforecasts/ensemble-forecast.aspx?location=Greenland


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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GIBBY
07 November 2014 08:35:07

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY FRIDAY NOVEMBER 7TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE SATURDAY NOVEMBER 8TH 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION. Fronts will clear NE over the UK today with a showery westerly flow following. A wave depression will move NE over Southern Britain tomorrow.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE  Unsettled with rain at times across the British Isles with strong winds too and temperatures near to normal.


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast shows the flow at around 50 deg North or a little less which takes it across France for much of the period in varying strengths having crossed the Atlantic. This general pattern remains in situ over the entire period.


GFS OPERATIONAL Today's operational run shows the UK continue to see areas of Low pressure crossing the Atlantic and into the UK from the West where they become slow moving and fill slowly before being reignited by new features coming in from the West. This means little change from the current pattern of wind and rain occurring on frequent occasions for all areas in temperatures never far from the seasonal average. Winds will be quite strong at times with gales in places at times.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run suggests little difference from the operational in Week 1 with plenty of wind and rain for all before a slight change in week 2 is shown in as much as some colder air becomes entrained across Northern Britain for a time with some snow over the hills and mountains for a time.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES.  The GFS Ensembles paint a very active Atlantic feeding low pressure after Low pressure towards and over the UK for the first week to 10 days with rain and showers all too frequent for many in average temperatures. Later on the trend shifts Low pressure more towards the NW while maintaining a windy and westerly flow to the airflow with spells of rain and showers for all in still close to average temperatures.


UKMO UKMO today shows Low pressure well established over the Atlantic and close to Western Britain with strong and cyclonic winds maintained over the UK through the middle days of next week with rain and showers, heavy at times in temperatures close to average.


THE FAX CHARTS  The Fax Charts continue to show a cyclonic airflow over the UK with Low pressure centred to the West and NW with occasional decelerating Eastward moving troughs crossing the UK each bringing their own version of wind and rain affecting all areas at times.


GEM  GEM continues to look very disturbed with Low pressure after Low pressure moving ESE towards the UK each bringing rain and strong winds at times with average temperatures as a result. Pressure is shown to be High to the North and colder air in association with this could flirt with the North and NE at times later.


NAVGEM NAVGEM keeps the UK locked under Low pressure over the next week, moving in from the WNW and filling slowly in situ across Britain later. Rain and showers will continue to affect all areas at times in blustery winds and average temperatures.


ECM  ECM feeds Low pressure down across the UK over the next 10 days with much rain and strong winds especially towards the South and West. Temperatures should remain close to average though with pressure high to the North later some far Northern areas could see colder air filter in here at times with somewhat drier conditions as a result.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES The ECM Ensembles are rock solid this morning in maintaining a Low pressure belt stretching from Southern Greenland to the UK and down towards Italy on a Jet flow remaining South of the UK and maintaining wind, rain and showers at times in temperatures close to average.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend today has reversed from yesterday morning in as much as any rise in pressure is now shown to more likely edge down from the North later rather than the South meaning the far North could tap into somewhat colder and drier conditions in 10-14 days.


MY THOUGHTS  The synoptic pattern over the Atlantic and the UK is very volatile at the moment and this looks like being maintained over the next few weeks. The Jet flow is quite strong and expected to remain so over the upcoming period and with it's location quite well South Low pressure areas are directed down across the UK spreading their deeply unsettled conditions to all areas. With time there is an interesting and strong trend for Northern blocking to occur up near the Arctic Circle and given the season and the rapidly cooling Northern hemisphere at this time of year colder air over Iceland and Scandinavia later in the period could begin to make inroads South towards the far North and NE of Britain later. At the moment all models show this well bottled in situ as the Atlantic feed of depressions from the States remains strong at the end of the run keeping many areas unsettled and sometimes wet but it is something which will need to be watched ver coming days outputs as there is a fighting chance that this could edge South over Britain later in the month. Probably of more concern though is the cumulative effect of the amounts of rain that are likely to be falling across parts of Britain inparticularly across the South and West and unfortunately a surface flooding risk is likely to grow with time over the period. Interestingly as well if there is any engagement with the aforementioned colder air to the North late in the period we could enhance this risk still more as cyclogenesis would be exacerbated further. So interesting times ahead weather-wise with plenty of active weather events likely over the coming weeks and while there is no sign of a quick dip into winter for the UK there are enough interesting synoptics later in the period to keep the cold fans interested.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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KevBrads1
07 November 2014 08:35:49
The Northern hemisphere chart of ECM 0Z at 240hrs is an eye opener. The PV is elongated from Canada to Sibera sandwiched between two high pressure cells on either side of it.
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Stormchaser
07 November 2014 09:05:41

The blocking in the Arctic is more Greenland-based on the 00z GFS and ECM op runs, which is another step towards bringing some proper cold to our shores.


They bring nothing but Atlantic rain out to day 10 though, due to low pressure systems tracking too far north i.e. right over the UK. ECM shows an opportunity for a mid-Atlantic ridge to vastly improve the setup days 11 and 12, though this is far from clear cut. GFS has a flatter jet that just keeps on driving the Atlantic in... I remember seeing the model running with that for a number of days prior to the November 2010 developments.


The GFSP 00z holds the upstream Atlantic low back near the SW tip of Greenland days 8-10, with only shallow troughing managing to extend SE from there - classic trough disruption. It then ends up a 'close but no cigar evolution', with a significant easterly through Scandinavia being scuppered by a shortwave that restricts the cold and snow to Scotland for the most part:



Perhaps this model will help us avoid some of those sudden short-range shortwave horrors? 


GEM's a close match for the GFSP run, but with a clean easterly poised to deliver as of day 10:



 


...so the promising trends continue, but it still looks like a lot of work to do for a cold, snowy regime to affect more than the northern third  of the UK. The jet needs to be tracking a bit further south than GFSP and GEM have, which is a long way south of what GFS and ECM have.


 


In the meantime, Monday evening through to next Saturday or Sunday looks to see the UK under the influence of a stalled trough, with small secondary features possibly becoming entwined as the week progresses. That's a very wet regime for many parts of the UK, with a lot of convective showers likely - which it's worth bearing in mind don't tend to be well represented in the GFS precipitation charts.


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polarwind
07 November 2014 09:05:48

The Northern hemisphere chart of ECM 0Z at 240hrs is an eye opener. The PV is elongated from Canada to Sibera sandwiched between two high pressure cells on either side of it.

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 

To my eye, very unusual, but, in that area, not a very well trained eye. The weather associated with those synoptics would, imo, from a big picture point of view, also be unusual.


How do you see it Kev?


 


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Dave,Derby
Polar Low
07 November 2014 09:20:43

Thanks James


 


ecm mean looks ok with its opp at t144 take that for a while happy with that for now.


Also as a few have said those fronts over the weekend really struggle to clear so im also expecting a very wet couple of days


http://www.weathercharts.org/ukmomslp.htm


Both seem slowly to be coming together


http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html


Perhaps not quite as much energy getting into |Europe on ecm as yesterday.


 


 


 



The blocking in the Arctic is more Greenland-based on the 00z GFS and ECM op runs, which is another step towards bringing some proper cold to our shores.


They bring nothing but Atlantic rain out to day 10 though, due to low pressure systems tracking too far north i.e. right over the UK. ECM shows an opportunity for a mid-Atlantic ridge to vastly improve the setup days 11 and 12, though this is far from clear cut. GFS has a flatter jet that just keeps on driving the Atlantic in... I remember seeing the model running with that for a number of days prior to the November 2010 developments.


The GFSP 00z holds the upstream Atlantic low back near the SW tip of Greenland days 8-10, with only shallow troughing managing to extend SE from there - classic trough disruption. It then ends up a 'close but no cigar evolution', with a significant easterly through Scandinavia being scuppered by a shortwave that restricts the cold and snow to Scotland for the most part:



Perhaps this model will help us avoid some of those sudden short-range shortwave horrors? 


GEM's a close match for the GFSP run, but with a clean easterly poised to deliver as of day 10:



 


...so the promising trends continue, but it still looks like a lot of work to do for a cold, snowy regime to affect more than the northern third  of the UK. The jet needs to be tracking a bit further south than GFSP and GEM have, which is a long way south of what GFS and ECM have.


 


In the meantime, Monday evening through to next Saturday or Sunday looks to see the UK under the influence of a stalled trough, with small secondary features possibly becoming entwined as the week progresses. That's a very wet regime for many parts of the UK, with a lot of convective showers likely - which it's worth bearing in mind don't tend to be well represented in the GFS precipitation charts.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

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