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Russwirral
09 December 2014 16:28:12

I posted this yesterday, and it seems to have emerged again today - can anyone explain where the relative warmth comes from off the tip of greenland? 500m Isotherm pops out of no where then disapears again.  Ive checked the ocean temps - theyre not that warm ( i think)


 


Is this descending air warming in a fohn effect?-


 


Netweather GFS Image


White Meadows
09 December 2014 16:44:47
Awful 12z for cold.

The conveyor belt of Icelandic lows re emerges into FI
nsrobins
09 December 2014 16:55:04

Well it's not 'awful' as there's plenty of variety on offer, but once again the cycle of NW/W winds with the high pretty much rooted over the Azores continues continues across the NWP.


If there is to be a SWW, OPI, QBO induced pattern change, we'll have to be patient.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Saint Snow
09 December 2014 16:56:22


Well it's not 'awful' as there's plenty of variety on offer, but once again the cycle of NW/W winds with the high pretty much rooted over the Azores continues continues across the NWP.


If there is to be a SWW, OPI, QBO induced pattern change, we'll have to be patient.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


And, sadly, it'll be far too late for the lead-up to Xmas.


 



Martin
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Gusty
09 December 2014 16:58:34

Awful 12z for cold. The conveyor belt of Icelandic lows re emerges into FI

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Indeed. I appreciate it is all FI but there appears to be a windy of opportunity at 264 hours. We have an Azores High willing to ridge NE and an Arctic High seemingly willing to ridge SW. There is the Scandinavian trough nosing SE'wards into Germany and a Siberian High retrogressing slowly westwards.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2641.gif


24 hours later the atlantic train pushes in and destroys all potential.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2881.gif


It is just so difficult to get cold to our shores.


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
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Brian Gaze
09 December 2014 17:01:44

GFSP is also running again this afternoon and looks poor. Xmas barbecue in the south? 



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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David M Porter
09 December 2014 17:02:29


Well it's not 'awful' as there's plenty of variety on offer, but once again the cycle of NW/W winds with the high pretty much rooted over the Azores continues continues across the NWP.


If there is to be a SWW, OPI, QBO induced pattern change, we'll have to be patient.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


It could end up being a repeat of two winters ago, assuming a change does occur. In 2012-13 the models didn't look exactly great for cold in the run-up to Xmas and then New Year, but it was during that time I think that major changes in the stratosphere began to take place and these then served to significantly alter the pattern of the winter as we went into January 2013.


It's only my view of course, but I for one would be extremely surprised it we ended up with two months of uninterrupted zonality again, as per last winter.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Arbroath 1320
09 December 2014 17:05:28

Awful 12z for cold. The conveyor belt of Icelandic lows re emerges into FI

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


 


Although the 12z is generally milder into FI than previous runs, the overall pattern remains the same; a very mobile Atlantic spell of weather in the offing with colder NW interludes interspersed with less cold westerly periods. 


Any detail beyond that is pure conjecture. It will change run to run, especially FI. 


GGTTH
Medlock Vale Weather
09 December 2014 17:14:43

I think for most of the UK snow before xmas is exceedingly rare. Since late 2008 we have been spoilt rotten with the Winters we had - this will no doubt add to optimism of snow before the big day. Only to lead to disappointment for some of us.


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
colin46
09 December 2014 17:25:38

 


Well it's not 'awful' as there's plenty of variety on offer, but once again the cycle of NW/W winds with the high pretty much rooted over the Azores continues continues across the NWP.


If there is to be a SWW, OPI, QBO induced pattern change, we'll have to be patient.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Looking at the latest SWW,OPI and QBO across the NWP coming in from the NE,N and NW and the GFS,ECM and BBC,ITV and NOMAD,GONAD,NORAD and FBI in conjunction with the CIA  its going to snow on xmas day TTFN!!


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
White Meadows
09 December 2014 17:30:47


 Looking at the latest SWW,OPI and QBO across the NWP coming in from the NE,N and NW and the GFS,ECM and BBC,ITV and NOMAD,GONAD,NORAD and FBI in conjunction with the CIA  its going to snow on xmas day TTFN!!


Originally Posted by: colin46 


No.

Jonesy
09 December 2014 17:30:55


 


Indeed. I appreciate it is all FI but there appears to be a windy of opportunity at 264 hours. We have an Azores High willing to ridge NE and an Arctic High seemingly willing to ridge SW. There is the Scandinavian trough nosing SE'wards into Germany and a Siberian High retrogressing slowly westwards.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2641.gif


24 hours later the atlantic train pushes in and destroys all potential.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2881.gif


It is just so difficult to get cold to our shores.


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Maybe this Weather Bomb will change things 


Looking potent down in our little corner on Friday http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/expertcharts?LANG=en&MENU=0000000000&CONT=ukuk&MODELL=gfs&MODELLTYP=1&BASE=-&VAR=uv85&HH=63&ZOOM=0&ARCHIV=0&RES=0&WMO=&PERIOD=


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
JACKO4EVER
09 December 2014 17:32:14
12z still going with a very mobile Atlantic regime, though neverly over mild or overly cool. This could be a pattern that is in for quite some time- once these get going they are incredibly hard to stop. For all the talk of SSW and high level blocks, it's the persistence of LP after LP around the Greenland area that's most noticeable feature to me.
Stormchaser
09 December 2014 17:37:10

The GEFS have suddenly shifted markedly away from the MJO getting into phase 8, so it's not surprising that all the -ve NAO trends of the 00z runs have been removed on the 12z GFS and GFSP runs.


We just see an Atlantic train from a more westerly direction, with near to above average temperatures occurring more often and cooler interludes lasting just a day or so.


 


Perhaps, then, the end of the brief run searching for those -ve NAO signals. The MJO/-ve NAO connection has really fueled my interest over the past week as I was hoping to see a live example of how it can drive a major change in our fortunes.


If that really has crashed and burned, then I have little of much interest to keep track of apart from the strat. warming event(s) kicking off in 9 days time. At least that aspect has been retained in the GFS output and without being delayed or any loss of intensity:


  


As the first -32*C isotherm appears at the 10hPa level, the vortex is it's usual well-rounded self.


By day 16, the warming has raised temperatures as high as -20*C and is starting to heavily distort the vortex.


The impacts of that will most likely take until close to or a little way into 2015 to impact the troposphere.


 


With that event so far away, and little to drive a -ve NAO beforehand, the only real possibility of a change in the next fortnight lies with the Siberian High building into Scandinavia, which depends on GFS and GFSP being wide of the mark in terms of the Atlantic trough behaviour. Anyone ready to cast their bets? 


Otherwise, it's an Atlantic regime all the way, as summarised at the top of this post.


 


I'm not one to hibernate, but unless the Siberian High suddenly starts barging its way west on the model output (not trusting any Greenland Highs for the time being), I'm certainly looking at a bit of a snooze 


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White Meadows
09 December 2014 17:41:32
There never looked like a -NAO on the cards to be honest. For me, it raises further suspicions on Ian F's one liner tweets.
Gooner
09 December 2014 17:49:49

There never looked like a -NAO on the cards to be honest. For me, it raises further suspicions on Ian F's one liner tweets.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Solar Cycles
09 December 2014 18:02:09

There never looked like a -NAO on the cards to be honest. For me, it raises further suspicions on Ian F's one liner tweets.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Yes he was obviously on the wind up, what does your GLOSEA 5 and MOGREPS postage stamps tell you?

Polar Low
09 December 2014 18:03:30

Think thats a very tiny Short wave t66 (not enclosed)


No mention of it but develops a slight southerly adjustment of the main feature


A BLOCKING RIDGE ACROSS THE WESTERN
ATLANTIC WILL ALLOW THE CLOSED LOW TO LINGER IN THE VICINITY OF
THE NORTHEAST THROUGH SATURDAY BEFORE THE FEATURE FINALLY MIGRATES
OFFSHORE. FARTHER UPSTREAM...MODELS SHOW THE WESTERN TROF
SPLITTING WITH A BULK OF THE VORTICITY CONGREGATED WITHIN THE
SOUTHERN STREAM WHILE THE NORTHERN BRANCH OF THE JET SHOULD BE
MUCH LESS DEFINED


 


 


 


 


 



I posted this yesterday, and it seems to have emerged again today - can anyone explain where the relative warmth comes from off the tip of greenland? 500m Isotherm pops out of no where then disapears again.  Ive checked the ocean temps - theyre not that warm ( i think)


 


Is this descending air warming in a fohn effect?-


 


Netweather GFS Image


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

Gooner
09 December 2014 18:04:37


Yes he was obviously on the wind up, what does your GLOSEA 5 and MOGREPS postage stamps tell you?


Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Retron
09 December 2014 18:05:24


By day 16, the warming has raised temperatures as high as -20*C and is starting to heavily distort the vortex.


The impacts of that will most likely take until close to or a little way into 2015 to impact the troposphere.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


After a few days where +15C or +20C was as high as it got, the 12z gets as high as 40C (!):


http://www.instantweathermaps.com/GFS-php/showmap-strat.php?run=2014120912&var=TMP&lev=1mb&hour=384


That's the highest I've ever seen. If only that were to come off...


 


Leysdown, north Kent
Polar Low
09 December 2014 18:13:06

Great to see you posting again Darren hope you and your family are ok and the flat was not to hot in the summer thanks for the great posts over the years.



 


 



 


Actually it was someone who said "it's going to be X degrees on suchandsuch a day", when all the models were showing something like 5 degrees lower as the max. They didn't offer any substantiating evidence for their claims and when they fluked it and it really was that warm in a few places, quite a few people suggested they deserved praise for getting it right. I disagreed, as it was purely a lucky guess.


That, added to the mild-ramping which was going on regarding March in general, was enough to make me leave for "a few days". As it happened, I carried on reading posts on the site from time to time, and Netweather too, but rather enjoyed having some time away from it all during my least favourite time of year.


I'm still around but have to admit it's much more relaxing taking a back seat from it all!


(And just to bring this on topic, if you look through the 12z GEFS runs you'll see all sorts of "interest" going on to the NE in many of the members. I reckon something's brewing, but it's out in low-res land (ie day 10+) and at the moment it's like chasing a mirage... and indeed, the majority of runs both in GEFS and ECM continue to show a mobile "sine wave" picture, albeit not an especially mild picture overall. Given the various hints, tweets, bits of ensembles we get to see I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some notably cold runs re-appearing in the ensembles by this time next week.)


Originally Posted by: Retron 

David M Porter
09 December 2014 18:21:34


The GEFS have suddenly shifted markedly away from the MJO getting into phase 8, so it's not surprising that all the -ve NAO trends of the 00z runs have been removed on the 12z GFS and GFSP runs.


We just see an Atlantic train from a more westerly direction, with near to above average temperatures occurring more often and cooler interludes lasting just a day or so.


 


Perhaps, then, the end of the brief run searching for those -ve NAO signals. The MJO/-ve NAO connection has really fueled my interest over the past week as I was hoping to see a live example of how it can drive a major change in our fortunes.


If that really has crashed and burned, then I have little of much interest to keep track of apart from the strat. warming event(s) kicking off in 9 days time. At least that aspect has been retained in the GFS output and without being delayed or any loss of intensity:


  


As the first -32*C isotherm appears at the 10hPa level, the vortex is it's usual well-rounded self.


By day 16, the warming has raised temperatures as high as -20*C and is starting to heavily distort the vortex.


The impacts of that will most likely take until close to or a little way into 2015 to impact the troposphere.


 


With that event so far away, and little to drive a -ve NAO beforehand, the only real possibility of a change in the next fortnight lies with the Siberian High building into Scandinavia, which depends on GFS and GFSP being wide of the mark in terms of the Atlantic trough behaviour. Anyone ready to cast their bets? 


Otherwise, it's an Atlantic regime all the way, as summarised at the top of this post.


 


I'm not one to hibernate, but unless the Siberian High suddenly starts barging its way west on the model output (not trusting any Greenland Highs for the time being), I'm certainly looking at a bit of a snooze 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


James, am I right in thinking that the SSW that altered the course of the 2012-13 winter started around Xmas 2012? I remember that the weather across the UK was very unsettled and wet during that time and the models didn't look brilliant for cold chances, but not that many days into 2013 and the models were starting to look rather more promising.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Polar Low
09 December 2014 18:23:51

very interesting read from Matt H


https://twitter.com/MattHugo81


 

Polar Low
09 December 2014 18:27:18

 


Thanks Gav



Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


A Little Milder Next Week?


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Chilly this week, a bit milder next week, perhaps.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 

Polar Low
09 December 2014 18:38:47

Dont think ive seen them agree for so long seems like to me  pattern has lasted a very long time already


http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html


 


 

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