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Matty H
24 January 2015 09:01:29


 


I am looking at the big picture Matthew 


Seriously though, and I know it is too far away for details, the upper air temperatures and thicknesses are really not conducive to snow. Looking at long fetch northerly such as on the GFS and more so on the ECM, conditions would be marginal at best (even here).


The pattern is a chilly one and interesting but to my eye it looks more wet than white with the majority of any snow on northern or initially NWern hills. I am not being unduly pessimistic but the charts do not scream snow to me (yet?)


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


The problem as I see it, as has been all winter, is the lack of deep cold to tap into. Certainly zero of interest for this patch in terms of snow, which is only marginal less interest than this weeks chilly spell was ever likely to bring, despite some comments. 


Having said that, I feel you might be underplaying your potential somewhat, but time will tell 


soperman
24 January 2015 09:02:07

Nothing of interest for southerners but the local authorities in Scotland and the Islands will be on high alert. 


Should be chilly and seasonal further south with a few wintry showers and i wonder if we will tap in to much milder SWesterlies with an early taste of spring from 2nd February as shown by the GFS.


-ve AO and cold pool to the East a premium this year and will prob need a pattern change in mid Feb or March before we see any significant snow in the South.

Nordic Snowman
24 January 2015 09:06:04


 


Doc: The man who remains optimistic when the outlook is pants, but is pessimistic when it actually looks "good for here" on his patch. 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


 



 


Agree with the Doc and it's what I said earlier in that the charts look good with the deep blues and purples but as Neil and Steve said, the source isn't cold enough.


Let's hope the trough stays further N and pushes a little more E like some of the runs


 



 


Chilly is the word... with a gradual trend to average temperatures by the end of the 1st week of Feb. The outlook is very good for the Scottish hills and ski industry though.... as it is for the Alpine ski slopes. Scandinavia is cold but all very boring with dry weather away from the W coast or further E across Sweden and Finland.


Looks like Brian's forecast, yet again, has called right. The risk of low level and widespread snow now hinges on the soundings of something developing from mid February, a.k.a the last chance saloon....


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Snowedin3
24 January 2015 09:27:02

Way to many sensible posts in here for my liking tongue-outsealed


Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Iceman
24 January 2015 09:37:05
Doc, the t850s for Scotland from 29 Jan to 3 Feb are as cold and some runs colder than for the recent cold spell which delivered widespread lowland snow with t850s of -6 to -7. And that was a westerly which is a pattern which seldom delivers lowland snow to Scotland. Notherlies in contrast guarantee snow to sea level in the northern half of Scotland and down the west and east coasts. OK, Fridays little low may not deliver lowland snow but both the GEFS & ECM have a cold spell shown from t120 to t240: 5 days. These charts show a snowy pattern for Scotland even for low ground.
East Kilbride 480 ft
Snowedin3
24 January 2015 09:40:23
People saying it won't be cold enough, however.

The 28th of jan 04 was an unstable northerly and the uppers weren't that different to what we are seeing now.


Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Jim_AFCB
24 January 2015 09:42:02


Longer  term GFS ens not keen at all on building heights. We have to make do with sliders which are perhaps better for the South in terms of marginal snow events like we saw recently. As said, a straignt northerly, however cold will deliver just chilly and dry down here


I think the Thundersnow event of Jan 2004 was a rare exception


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


Indeed.


 


Snow down here is very rare without some sort of Continental influence. Come to think about it, snow is very rare down here full stop!


 


This cold spell here has been "rather cold", nothing more bar yesterday morning. Expecting the forthcoming spell, if it happens, to be about the same, tbh.


Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. Home of the mighty Cherries
Bournemouth Weather Onine - Click here. 
doctormog
24 January 2015 09:44:31
I agree that the models show a cold spell of some variety but t850s of -4 or -5 at times and unfavourable 850-1000hPa partial thicknesses leave me very cautious.

There may be snow at times but the northerlies that "always deliver snow" nearly always have colder air masses. Perhaps the low pressure allowing for slightly higher upper air temperatures may work in people's favour. However even the precipitation charts I have just looked at show ni snow here in the entire time period you mention. I realise they are not the most reliable (and often miss convective precipitation) but they do give a broad idea of what to expect.

Nudge the t850s down a couple of degree and the partial thickness by a decametre or two and I will be happy.

warrenb
24 January 2015 09:45:50
People, remember the Gfs upgrade is only upto 256 hrs. At that point it goes lower resolution which based on the old Gfs
Gary L
24 January 2015 09:46:41

The northerly is nailed on now, and it would have been a perfect set up for the north west, but unfortunately the uppers aren't quite cold enough for widespread snow. Great for the hills again though!

doctormog
24 January 2015 09:49:30

People saying it won't be cold enough, however.

The 28th of jan 04 was an unstable northerly and the uppers weren't that different to what we are seeing now.

Originally Posted by: Snowedin3 


Dean I have just checked the archive data and for that date the t850 here was about -12°C with 500-1000hPa values around 515dm. That is significantly colder than anything shown in the current output I'm afraid.


Snowedin3
24 January 2015 09:57:39


 


Dean I have just checked the archive data and for that date the t850 here was about -12°C with 500-1000hPa values around 515dm. That is significantly colder than anything shown in the current output I'm afraid.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I was talking about the whole of Britain, a LOT of the GEFS bring those 850s down, the ecm isn't that far off and ukmo looks really good,


gfs op isn't that great for 850 temps but it's over a week a way it will change,  for better or worse,


i know now people are being cautious but where's the fun in that??


Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Matty H
24 January 2015 10:18:44


 


I was talking about the whole of Britain, a LOT of the GEFS bring those 850s down, the ecm isn't that far off and ukmo looks really good,


gfs op isn't that great for 850 temps but it's over a week a way it will change,  for better or worse,


i know now people are being cautious but where's the fun in that??


Originally Posted by: Snowedin3 


I don't think it's being cautious, it's being realistic. I was spot on over the last coldish spell wasn't I? (Facebook) I'm even less enthusiastic about this one, and that's saying something. All I will say is it's still a way out yet, and it currently looks decent for northern and western parts IMO


tallyho_83
24 January 2015 10:18:50

Next Wednesday afternoon /evening - looks like showers turning to sleet and snow in many parts, especially the west and north west:


 



 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Ally Pally Snowman
24 January 2015 10:21:13

UK wide snow event on Wednesday. Surprised by all the pessimism this morning looks plenty cold enough for snow even in the south.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/precipitations/102h.htm


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
24 January 2015 10:21:26
I do actually think, based on current data that Wednesday's cold NWly could deliver more wintry precipitation (for W and NWern parts) than the subsequent northerly. Why? It is colder.
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
24 January 2015 10:29:09


 


Dean I have just checked the archive data and for that date the t850 here was about -12°C with 500-1000hPa values around 515dm. That is significantly colder than anything shown in the current output I'm afraid.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes, the northerly as currently shown in the models is not comparable to the Jan 2004 event at all. The cold air then was drawn from much further north, there was some genuine height rise to the south of Greenland and the Azores High was situated over the Canaries. 


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
tallyho_83
24 January 2015 10:30:52


UK wide snow event on Wednesday. Surprised by all the pessimism this morning looks plenty cold enough for snow even in the south.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/precipitations/102h.htm


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Looks like the northerly is arriving a day early according to the 06z runs. Was expecting the North westerly until Thursday. Time will tell. - Just hope it brings some snow to the south - we missed out last week,.


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


doctormog
24 January 2015 10:33:19


 


Looks like the northerly is arriving a day early according to the 06z runs. Was expecting the North westerly until Thursday. Time will tell. - Just hope it brings some snow to the south - we missed out last week,.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 That chart is from the northwesterly.


Maunder Minimum
24 January 2015 10:34:25
I just wanted to congratulate the person (cannot recall who it was) who was the first to spot this forthcoming northerly a few days ago (which is now "nailed on") - at the time he was widely ridiculed for picking up on something which most on here disregarded at the time.
New world order coming.
Ally Pally Snowman
24 January 2015 10:34:38


 


Looks like the northerly is arriving a day early according to the 06z runs. Was expecting the North westerly until Thursday. Time will tell. - Just hope it brings some snow to the south - we missed out last week,.


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


Just looking at the temps I think it would be rain for the south at least on Wednesday not sure why GFS graphics show snow. The ECM though is certainly cold enough for snow for the south.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Matty H
24 January 2015 10:36:55


 


 


Just looking at the temps I think it would be rain for the south at least on Wednesday not sure why GFS graphics show snow. 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Because as gets proved ad nauseum every single winter - they are absolute garbage. 


Maunder Minimum
24 January 2015 10:40:15
On the latest GFS run, the Azores HP finally gets sucked up to Greenland on Sunday 🙂
New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
24 January 2015 10:40:50

amazing synoptics anyway. Just the issue with the uppers. We are more likely to get snow from the slider as the cold air will be embedded already. Even though hi res shows snow from the cold front on Wednesday, I cant quite believe it


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015012406/gfsnh-0-210.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
24 January 2015 10:42:31

An early outing for the pub run the process of incremental upgrades continues, now all we need is for those uppers to be upgraded as well over time


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015012406/gfsnh-0-222.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President

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