I think you are right, but to be honest if Dave manages to get some particular concessions, I shall vote to remain in the EU, since it is crucial to attracting the levels of inward investment required to keep the UK economy ticking over. However, I have red lines and these are mine:

1. UK to opt out of "Ever closer union", this to be enshrined in law.


2. UK to have total control over immigration and asylum (which should be scrapped in any case), with the exception of free movement to work.


3. On free movement - only for work and not for benefits (including in-work benefits such as tax credits).


4. Complete independence from the EU and all its works concerning justice and home affairs.


5. Outside of any notion of EU army or common foreign policy (trade negotiations excepted).


6. Reform of CAP.


7. Progress on single market in services - I know personally that the UK loses out because of this.

Naturally, I would love the UK to regain control of its own fishing grounds, but this is unlikely to be achievable. Would also like us to exit the disgusting European Arrest Warrant, but Dave has already sold out on that one.

You know full well this is a nonsense because the vast majority of them already come here to work. The problem with benefits and big families is more applicable to migration from certain parts of the world which are not in the EU.

There are absolutely no circumstances in which I would vote to stay in. For me, the 'renegotiations' are a waste of time. We should go straight to a vote.

That is fair enough SE - I admire your stance on principle. I take a somewhat more pragmatic view - if we get insufficient in the form of concessions (from my perspective), then I will vote to exit. Anyway, this discussion should be in the Europe thread.

What happened to Ed Miliband's squeezed middle?

They basically told him, "not you guv."

Also what happened to "predators v producers"?

What British troops? 

Carswell sticks the knife in:

UKIP leader Nigel Farage "needs to take a break now", the party's only MP Douglas Carswell has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32761766

Edit:

Farage suggests what is happening is a Tory led attempt to destabilise UKIP:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32761766

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/may/16/tory-councils-osborne-no-further-austerity

And so it begins...

The next round of savage and unnecessary cuts. Local government will have its budget slashed again as this is always the smartest way to cut spending without the government getting the direct blame. I dont know how much monger Gideon will get away with it though. Even Tory Councils have had enough, but perhaps the Government is willing to sacrifice them at the next round of local elections

Perhaps it is a CIA led plot to start a "Colour Revolution" in the Home Counties.

Dave needed to cut down on No 10's food bill.

Send him to Brussels. 

He got into a pickle?

Apparently it was the ex Scottish Secretary, the LibDem Alistair Carmichael who was behind the leaked memo claiming that Sturgeon wants a Tory win.

Because he upset even the most placid Tory council with the way he forced his view upon everyone in local government, they all hate him.

The appointment of Greg Clark means the government will be able to work WITH local councils instead of constantly working against them.

You sure don't lack a sense of humour SE!

No she didn't.

What is the problem with the Left?

Following the election, they organised pointless protests about the result - they may as well have protested about the weather.

Then we have this unseemly incident  - a duly elected MP being treated to shocking treatment by the rabble of great unwashed:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11637023/A-Left-wing-mob-tried-to-assault-me-in-broad-daylight.-What-made-them-so-angry.html

"... what unsettled me most was not their ski masks, the personal slurs or the threats of violence. It was the blinkered self-righteousness of this Left-wing mob. In their twisted world view, they saw themselves as the good guys. 

Austerity, according to the Left, is the ultimate evil. The Tories are scum – and Ukip even worse.

Best not mention the fact that millions of their fellow Brits had just voted in favour of government balancing the books. The Conservatives may have won a general election for the first time in 23 years – something, in fact, I did my best to prevent – but to the Left, this is intolerable. It’s an affront to their deluded idea of justice.

But by what logic do anti-austerity protesters attack an MP waiting at a bus stop who, it just so happened, had turned down a quarter of a million pounds of tax payer money the week before?

The Left, I can only conclude, is no longer driven by either logic or reason. It’s all about the expression of emotion. And so long as you do it holding an anti-austerity placard, its not thuggery – it’s a protest. Provided your target is Ukip, it is not mob violence – but to use the BBC’s expression – it’s a confrontation."

Quite!

So use a small incident with a particularly militant group and from that extrapolate a twisted thesis about "the Left" as a whole? Is this what passes for considered analysis these days?

I think the point is that there is always a vocal group on the left who want to shout down reasoned debate and it is not a small group by any means.

A group of sanctimonious, self righteous, cerebrally challenged twerps!

Whenever a bunch of people start behaving grossly, it is always decreed that they are somehow "unrepresentative". We hear the same nonsense, whether it is the behaviour of Islamists (who of course don't represent Islam) or a leftist rabble (who of course don't represent the left).

Or football hooligans. Or banksters imploding the economy. Or MP's fiddling expenses. Or coppers being bent. Or right-wingers who are anti-immigration attacking leftists.

Perhaps, actually, the 'bad eggs' are a very small minority of each and unrepresentative of the respective organisations/movements as a whole, and therefore only a complete f*ckwit would try to equate the actions of a tiny minority with how an entire group of people think/act.

Come on Saint- you are fully aware that there has always been a rent-a-mob element on the left. The numbers involved are not tiny either.

When football hooliganism was at its height, it tarnished the whole game - eventually is was pretty well sorted, leaving only the hard core.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

So where is your condemnation of their behaviour?

I also note that you did not find it odd to say the least, that there were demonstrations in Cardiff and London against the outcome of the General Election. If you recall, Charlotte Church took a prominent role in the Cardiff event. Nothing wrong with non-violent protest of course, but distinctly strange behaviour, protesting about a GE. When Labour got in with a big majority in 2005 on a 36% vote share, I don't recall any street protests.