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Retron
08 December 2015 18:24:22


GEFS12z postage stamps don't look cold

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


8 out 21 are cold in the mid-term, 13 of them show milder conditions but only a couple show prolonged mildness, the rest go up and down like a yo-yo.


As I'm sure you know, when the models are all over the place like this it usually means a big change is on the way (and in this case, that means anything except a continuation of this mild dross we've endured for weeks down here). If we were going to see a continuation of the prolonged mild spell, for example, you would see the vast majority of runs showing it and they're simply not at the moment...


Leysdown, north Kent
Bertwhistle
08 December 2015 18:27:39


 


I'm guessing the ensemble perturbations are at a lower resolution than the GFS op run? Either way it was nice to see two consecutive op runs showing such potential. The outlook is certainly not without interest and it will be fascinating to see if the GOVERNMENT CM 12z run hints at anything similar.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


How do we get to view the GOVERNMENT CM 12z run?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Brian Gaze
08 December 2015 18:30:34


 


I'm guessing the ensemble perturbations are at a lower resolution than the GFS op run? Either way it was nice to see two consecutive op runs showing such potential. The outlook is certainly not without interest and it will be fascinating to see if the GOVERNMENT CM 12z run hints at anything similar.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes, but their resolution - horizontal and vertical - has in the last week been increased. Horizontal is now 0.5 deg which is the same as GFS was until earlier this year. The GEFS upgrade hasn't been discussed much but the changes are very substantial and I'm not sure how they stack up alongside MOGREPS and ECM ENS. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
08 December 2015 18:33:36


 


How do we get to view the GOVERNMENT CM 12z run?


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


My iPad made that one up in autocorrect I am afraid!  I had (mis)typed ECMWF and that is what I ended up with!


 


Bertwhistle
08 December 2015 18:38:34


 


My iPad made that one up in autocorrect I am afraid!  I had (mis)typed ECMWF and that is what I ended up with!


 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Cheers- I wasn't being funny- I thought there was a model I'd not heard of with a chance of an even better outlook than the GFS 12!


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Solar Cycles
08 December 2015 18:56:46

I think the models are a little too progressive with heights over Greenland within the next 10 days. Look East at this moment in time.

Brian Gaze
08 December 2015 19:05:38


 


8 out 21 are cold in the mid-term, 13 of them show milder conditions but only a couple show prolonged mildness, the rest go up and down like a yo-yo.


As I'm sure you know, when the models are all over the place like this it usually means a big change is on the way (and in this case, that means anything except a continuation of this mild dross we've endured for weeks down here). If we were going to see a continuation of the prolonged mild spell, for example, you would see the vast majority of runs showing it and they're simply not at the moment...


Originally Posted by: Retron 


 In practical terms what for you qualifies as a pattern change? Would 3 to 5 days of chill high pressure followed by several weeks of above average CET on a west/south westerly tick the box? Or would only several weeks of below average CET be required to meet your criteria?


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Maunder Minimum
08 December 2015 19:12:19


 


 In practical terms what for you qualifies as a pattern change? Would 3 to 5 days of chill high pressure followed by several weeks of above average CET on a west/south westerly tick the box? Or would only several weeks of below average CET be required to meet your criteria?


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


After the weather we have been suffering in recent weeks, 3 to 5 days of chill HP would be a godsend.


New world order coming.
Whether Idle
08 December 2015 19:21:11


 


After the weather we have been suffering in recent weeks, 3 to 5 days of chill HP would be a godsend.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


This chart from the JMA may be close to the mark.  There have been a number of times in recent winters where a high over Greenland has failed to deliver cold to the UK, as the more potent and permanent player is the Euro-slug high.  The winds will be less mild, although SWly there is an element of recycled polar air returning for most, so mild but not THAT mild.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
08 December 2015 19:27:14


 


After the weather we have been suffering in recent weeks, 3 to 5 days of chill HP would be a godsend.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Don't look at ECM12z. 


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Whether Idle
08 December 2015 19:30:21


 


Don't look at ECM12z. 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Oops too late!  Not hugely dissimilar to the JMA at day 8, here it is (ECM) at day 9:



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Polar Low
08 December 2015 19:40:38

gfs up to its old tricks with that Aleutian dart board that is some winter storm affecting upstream pattern I dont believe it


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=120&mode=0&carte=1


 

Brian Gaze
08 December 2015 19:40:50


 


Oops too late!  Not hugely dissimilar to the JMA at day 8, here it is (ECM) at day 9:


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Yep, some very mild pulses. Given the starting point I expect there would be a good chance of December CET being the highest recorded if it verified. However, I still think we'll get a colder snap mid month onwards.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
moomin75
08 December 2015 19:49:54


 


Yep, some very mild pulses. Given the starting point I expect there would be a good chance of December CET being the highest recorded if it verified. However, I still think we'll get a colder snap mid month onwards.



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I would agree Brian and if we don't get a cold snap I reckon a record mild December is very much odds on. That ECM brought a touch of reality back to proceedings. Still nothing to write home about in the reliable time frame.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Polar Low
08 December 2015 19:55:18

Even more notable Brian the far east temp anomaly, keep eating those mushrooms for now anyway


 



 


 


 



 


Yep, some very mild pulses. Given the starting point I expect there would be a good chance of December CET being the highest recorded if it verified. However, I still think we'll get a colder snap mid month onwards.



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

David M Porter
08 December 2015 20:05:57


I would agree Brian and if we don't get a cold snap I reckon a record mild December is very much odds on. That ECM brought a touch of reality back to proceedings. Still nothing to write home about in the reliable time frame.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


We will only be able to describe it as "reality" if what ECM shows actually verifies. It is mere speculation at the moment, just as what has been shown on the 12z and 06z GFS runs is.


FWIW, it seems that the behaviour of the LP to the west of the UK next weekend will likely have a big say in what follows thereafter. I really wouldn't like to try and call it one way or another just now.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Solar Cycles
08 December 2015 20:11:10


 


We will only be able to describe it as "reality" if what ECM shows actually verifies. It is mere speculation at the moment, just as what has been shown on the 12z and 06z GFS runs is.


FWIW, it seems that the behaviour of the LP to the west of the UK next weekend will likely have a big say in what follows thereafter. I really wouldn't like to try and call it one way or another just now.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Hungry Tiger
08 December 2015 20:11:58

We have a phenomenal CET for the first 8 days of the month. But don't forget there is still 3 weeks left and a lot can happen in that time.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Gooner
08 December 2015 20:15:49


 


My iPad made that one up in autocorrect I am afraid!  I had (mis)typed ECMWF and that is what I ended up with!


 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
08 December 2015 20:18:13


 


Don't look at ECM12z. 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Its a bag of pants


 


Where is Darren to cheer me up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


moomin75
08 December 2015 20:26:30


 


Its a bag of pants


 


Where is Darren to cheer me up


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Yep no doubt about it Marcus ECM is dreadful. 


I agree with what David says about it being difficult to call the rest of this month but I am going to say I reckon my CET estimate will be too low and the record could well go.


I hope it doesn't though.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
roger63
08 December 2015 20:37:21

GEFS 12h Ens has 50:50 Mild:Cold at both 240h and 360h. However the position of the HP vraies alot with a tendency for HP to east or south east and little sign of real northern blocking.


Nevertheless there are signs  of  a weaker zonal flow and more southerly tracking LP's


But still no real convincing cold spell in sight.

marting
08 December 2015 20:41:34
ECM ensembles shows the operational as a big warm outlier, while the control is on the cool side. Models flip flopping all over the place
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
yorkshirelad89
08 December 2015 20:56:29

Looks like a fair bit of uncertainty after the next week, in fairness we do have a rather unusual pattern with lower then usual sea level pressure over the Azores, in contrast to the previous two winters were it has been pretty persistent.


How ironic then that we still get very mild conditions under cyclonic SW winds. The problem is the very stubborn area of high pressure across Europe, which has persisted pretty much since mid November. Hopefully this will ease some point soon, the latest GFS shows this at least... lets hope its onto something.


Hull
Arcus
08 December 2015 20:58:13
No sense looking at anything beyond the Azores low that runs up against the Euro high at T+96. So many different solutions from that point. More runs needed, natch.
Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl

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