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Polar Low
27 December 2015 23:18:08

As does the 18z control



 


 


12z GFS parallel had something close to a channel low. Ive been waiting a long time for Jan 1st 79' to repeat down here....

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2015122712/gfsnh-0-240.png?12

Originally Posted by: squish 

Rob K
27 December 2015 23:19:54
I don't understand how anyone can look at the output and say "more of the same" when it seems clear that the pattern in a week's time could hardly be more different from what it is right now.

Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
squish
27 December 2015 23:23:37

I don't understand how anyone can look at the output and say "more of the same" when it seems clear that the pattern in a week's time could hardly be more different from what it is right now.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


If you were referring to my quote above re the 18z then I meant more of the same' knife-edge' output from the 18z - very much not more of the same in relation to the last few weeks/months :)


This major pattern change (potential) is now showing in the FAX charts- thats how quickly it has crept up on us


 


+120 FAX


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Polar Low
27 December 2015 23:23:47

To be honest it looks like more members intrested in the undercut


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_panel.php?modele=0&mode=1&ech=138


 

squish
27 December 2015 23:28:51


To be honest it looks like more members intrested in the undercut


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_panel.php?modele=0&mode=1&ech=138


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


 


Yes I agree. Still generally not very cold for the UK, but a very finely balanced situation...


 


+192 'mean' from GFS ensembles 


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Stormchaser
27 December 2015 23:58:04

I do have a rule that I never trust ensemble guidance for blocking highs, especially ones to our NE. Often their persistence seems to involve minute details that the lower-res ensembles tend to overlook. In theory we can't be far from a time when ensembles are of sufficient resolution but I don't think we're there just yet.


I expect the block will fight on and on, and we'll be waiting for it's impacts on the vortex (aided by ridges from Alaska/Canada at times) to trigger a shift in the position of the blocking features, hoping that they spend at least some time in a place that's good for sending some cold, snowy weather our way. Arguably it's snow-fanatics in the south that could benefit from it most, as that's where there has been the least occurrence over the past few years (only had settling snow here on one occasion since Jan 2013 and some places have had none at all!), plus there's not the concerns over flooding - instead a deficit of precipitation in parts.


I still wonder how many years I'm going to have to wait for a powerful channel low bringing blizzards to the south to take place in my lifetime.


 


Anyway, the nature of the blocking high in the early part of January looks like a classic 'dangling carrot' to me, one that has a habit of teasing us with a whiff of properly cold air grazing the northeast for example. So it is that rainfall is the major concern - and let's face it, a big block just to our NE causing storm systems to stall out over the UK is among the worst possible paths to be following following recent and current events in some parts of the nation. The only thing worse is a hyperactive jet piling storms in with hardly a pause for breath (2013/14 being the ultimate example), which thankfully isn't looking to be on the cards given the relaxing vortex and opposite tropical rain pattern over Indonesia to what was seen in '13/'14.


 


I do have a strong 'gut feeling' that we're going to get somewhere by late January wrt cold, snowy conditions across much of the UK at some point or other, and that a retrogression of high pressure from Scandinavia to Greenland will be involved. In light of which I will be taking great interest in how the deep cold moves about in the coming weeks - we don't want to find ourselves with a top drawer pattern but the cold vacated from the source region. Just look at how heavily the cold near/over Siberia is modulated by the high-850 hpa temp airmass being advected up there in the near future (850's may reach +4*C!).


What would be rather typical of an El Nino type winter would be for the optimum setup to be rather transient, with the blocking heading too far west before too long (west-based negative NAO) but there are actually hints that the current El Nino is losing some of it's classic form in favour of a more central type forcing which if true will certainly work in our favour in terms of the likely place for blocking highs to set up shop... this is another feature that I'll be watching with great interest in the next fortnight.


For evidence of that I'm afraid all I have for the mo is this poorly focused snapshot taken from discussions with a good friend of mine:



It reads 'Strongest Forcing to shift from 110W to 145W during late December into early January'.


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2023's Homeland Extremes:
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ITSY
28 December 2015 00:15:57

Whilst no great cold looks likely in the medium term for low lying or southern areas (or even northern areas at times), you only need to look at some of these eye_catching NH profiles by the end of FI to see that potential shifts are in the offing in terms of the broad and prevailing weather pattern...


 


(can't change post pics in my iPad posting, but look at the ptb3, ptb 4, 5, 8, 10, 13, 17, 19 (!) and 20 for some seriously eye catching Synoptics). 


Rare to see that many options on the table. Shows that just looking at our own temp profile isn't enough, you might miss the wood for the trees. Patience grasshopper anyone? 


 


 


 


 


 

Gooner
28 December 2015 01:11:22

I don't understand how anyone can look at the output and say "more of the same" when it seems clear that the pattern in a week's time could hardly be more different from what it is right now.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I agree


Its massively different......................but then again am I wearing rose tinted glasses?


It looks much colder IMO


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Sevendust
28 December 2015 01:43:35




Cold and Raw


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Not cold but normal(for here) - just shows how mild it has been

Gooner
28 December 2015 01:48:22

Should have put " it wil feel cold and raw "


 


OT


A Deakin ..........." probably mild into 2016 ,  I say probably because some computer models are starting to show some colder weather "


 


Seems much uncertainty


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


SEMerc
28 December 2015 04:53:05

Atlantic (eventually) wins decisively on the FFS 0600 run.

Gusty
28 December 2015 05:29:57

Early inspection of the output, excluding the ECM, would suggest a reduced easterly risk, say 5% now. High Pressure over Scandinavia is now being modelled too far north and east to successfully advect proper cold westwards towards the UK. The atlantic has the upper hand with the jet on a more NW-SE trajectory across the UK.


Its looking very wet indeed, there is still the risk of snowfall though, especially higher ground towards the NE of the UK with temperatures generally close to average.


Nevertheless with a huge block to our NE and with 850Hpa's out east close to -20c I shall continue to avidly monitor for some time yet. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
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Whether Idle
28 December 2015 06:26:41

ECM 120 looking ok.  Worth thinking that this really is  the edge of the reliable and there could be adjustments 300 miles east or west from that troughing out west of Ireland...



 There must be significant uncertainty at this point.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
28 December 2015 06:33:25

Overnight GEFS:



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Whether Idle
28 December 2015 06:39:11

All highly uncertain as its in FI BUT the ECM brings a raw easterly for most by 168:Looks cold in the far NE



 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Retron
28 December 2015 06:41:03

This morning's ECM is a classic case of multiple shots of warm air advection serving to pull cold air westwards, although it remains to be seen whether it arrives on our shores this time!

The first blast of WAA is going on now; it's a sustained blast which is why the heights rise so much to the NE. The second blast shows up beautifully on that 120 chart posted above. This time it's further west and as you can see by going through the charts it has the effect of extending that blocking high westwards and thus pulling the cold air to its south further westwards. It's worth noting though that this is far, far from certain at this stage - FI starts before 120 at the moment!

As an aside, we saw a similar repeated WAA process taking place a couple of thousand miles further west before the cold set in back in November 2010. The more warm shots you have the more robust the blocking ends up, is the way I tend to think of it! In reality it's a similar process to the self-reinforcing Azores High drudgery we've seen of late, albeit further north and east.


Leysdown, north Kent
Whether Idle
28 December 2015 06:43:51


This morning's ECM is a classic case of multiple shots of warm air advection serving to pull cold air westwards, although it remains to be seen whether it arrives on our shores this time!

The first blast of WAA is going on now; it's a sustained blast which is why the heights rise so much to the NE. The second blast shows up beautifully on that 120 chart posted above. This time it's further west and as you can see by going through the charts it has the effect of extending that blocking high westwards and thus pulling the cold air to its south further westwards. It's worth noting though that this is far, far from certain at this stage - FI starts before 120 at the moment!

As an aside, we saw a similar repeated WAA process taking place a couple of thousand miles further west before the cold set in back in November 2010. The more warm shots you have the more robust the blocking ends up, is the way I tend to think of it! In reality it's a similar process to the self-reinforcing Azores High drudgery we've seen of late, albeit further north and east.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Absoultely Darren.  Deep FI now, and we have cold air in situ with a weak easterly at day 8: All purely academic at this point.  Can someone PLEASE post the ECM 120 postage stamps as soon as they come out as Ive lost the link.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
SEMerc
28 December 2015 06:51:22

And by T+216, it's looking like ECM is falling into line with the 'Atlantic winning' scenario painted by GFS. Utterly depressing stuff.

Ally Pally Snowman
28 December 2015 07:06:59

Best out put of the morning from the ECM no raging easterly but possible snow events at day 8 and 9. Probably the best we can hope for at this stage 


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1922.html


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2162.html


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Retron
28 December 2015 07:18:19
This morning's ECM is again a snowy run in its fantasy island section!

Up to 186 it's just the usual suspects - the majority of Scotland, the mountains of Wales and parts of Northern Ireland that have seen snow.

Snow then moves in from the east (first time I've seen that in ages) to blanket East Anglia by 204; at the same time heavy snow falls over the north of England.

216 sees an inch or two of snow across Wales and the Midlands, extending (you guessed it) as far south as the M4 in England. There's a dumping of snow at 222 across the MIdlands and this time the snow almost reaches the south coast. By 240 there's over 10 inches of snow over the Midlands and the Highlands, with all of the UK aside from a narrow strip along the south coast and Thanet in Kent having seen some snow.

It's a classic case of charts not looking overly cold but producing a lot of snow.

All academic of course, as it won't come off like that. Heck, we don't even know what's going to happen 5 days away, let alone 9 or 10!


Leysdown, north Kent
John p
28 December 2015 07:25:26


And by T+216, it's looking like ECM is falling into line with the 'Atlantic winning' scenario painted by GFS. Utterly depressing stuff.


Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


I take it you don't like snow?


Camberley, Surrey
Whether Idle
28 December 2015 07:38:39

This morning's ECM is again a snowy run in its fantasy island section!

Up to 186 it's just the usual suspects - the majority of Scotland, the mountains of Wales and parts of Northern Ireland that have seen snow.

Snow then moves in from the east (first time I've seen that in ages) to blanket East Anglia by 204; at the same time heavy snow falls over the north of England.

216 sees an inch or two of snow across Wales and the Midlands, extending (you guessed it) as far south as the M4 in England. There's a dumping of snow at 222 across the MIdlands and this time the snow almost reaches the south coast. By 240 there's over 10 inches of snow over the Midlands and the Highlands, with all of the UK aside from a narrow strip along the south coast and Thanet in Kent having seen some snow.

It's a classic case of charts not looking overly cold but producing a lot of snow.

All academic of course, as it won't come off like that. Heck, we don't even know what's going to happen 5 days away, let alone 9 or 10!

Originally Posted by: Retron 


Thanks Darren for the information, as you say, its all purely academic.  Can you send a link for the 120 ECM stamps or are they not publically available?  If so can you post them?


Ta


WI


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Retron
28 December 2015 08:13:02


Thanks Darren for the information, as you say, its all purely academic.  Can you send a link for the 120 ECM stamps or are they not publically available?  If so can you post them?


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


They're not published yet (for the 0z run), so I can't post them at the moment. I'm off to Maidstone this morning, but will post them when I get back!


Leysdown, north Kent
Bertwhistle
28 December 2015 08:19:55

The slow development of that high to the east could work in our favour, by allowing the intense cold to develop better. Today's 850  chart from GFS:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/gfs/00_0_mslp850.png?cb=736


Compared to this one at T138


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/gfs/00_138_mslp850.png?cb=205


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
nsrobins
28 December 2015 08:40:06
GFS and GEFS not getting much of a look in this morning? 😉
As Steve mentioned a page back, another shift away from an easterly chance with zero members below -10 for London.
Of course there is much more data to view, but I suspect the MetO extended outlook will not be changing today.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO

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